Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Kich867]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He specifically said no fungi/regen items. He had like 2 mediocre weapons and a SCHW and claimed to out solo an enchanter cause his DPS was higher than a charm pet in his mid 20s. First of all: debatable and depends on the charm pet and what weapons. You also have to consider damage caps for melee at low lvl limiting the effectiveness of twink weapons. He also openly admitted to not hasting his charm pets in this comparison. He also acted like it was an absurd idea that you could get free mage pet toys in EC for your charms. Something I did frequently when leveling my enc. None of that matters though cause fact of the matter is that without a fungi and the only twinking being weapons and a SCHW a warrior is going to have fairly large periods of downtime. The DPS could be 3x higher than a charm pet (it's not) and warrior would still lose due to downtime. There's no fucking chance a warrior solos with less downtime than an enc with no regen item or buffs. DSM in typical DSM fashion completely disregarded this and just kept talking about his questionable DPS data cause that's what suited his agenda at that particular moment. It changes frequently around here.

Sure, no regen items, but if you had pretty ballin weapons and a huge AC/HP pool, you really do not take that much damage at those levels as a warrior. You spend less time in combat because you're murdering the thing and your AC is so high they aren't often hitting you for max damage. It's not like you're waiting for full hp, you're just bandaging to 50% for each mob, it doesn't really take that long, it's not like cripplingly slow downtime. Even on my entirely untwinked warrior my downtime between mobs was like a minute tops and he had probably 1/10th the damage output so he had to eat way more hits during combat than a twink would.

Damage cap--totally, but you can have pre-level 10 or 20 weapons that are good for those levels, there's pretty nasty weapons that proc at level 1, Venomous Axe nukes for 85 and costs like 1.7-2k on green and it hovers just around the damage cap early on.

And while I'm sure I'm just ignorant about something here--I'm suspicious about the implication(?) that enchanters have basically no downtime. Everything in that process costs mana, you do end up having to nuke the mobs at some point, and anything that goes wrong costs more mana, even if you get to med most of the time your mana regen isn't that great at low levels, no?

[tadkins]

So in the end, does all this really matter? It's a 20+ year old game, let people play what they want. You can succeed without the most optimal group and the most fine-tuned numbers, can't you?

[Gloomlord]

Why bring a "pocket cleric" into this?

How is not an admission of defeat right here?

[PlsNoBan]

I keep half expecting DSM's mom to start posting about how he has issues and we all need to stop making fun of him


P.S. DSM's mom if you're reading this and he actually has some kind of issue please say something or at least DM me. I may be a dick but I'm not trying to make fun of people with actual mental disabilities.

[Karanis]

thrust.jpg

[Jimjam]

I went to velks spiders the other day. I pulled the usual way for current meta (up to 5 mobs a time) and shaman was root rotting adds with epic. So it does happen in a ‘real’ context.

Hows the thread gone since Ally posted mage logs? I wish I had been there to cotp/son the pet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hows the thread gone since Ally posted mage logs? I wish I had been there to cotp/son the pet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It forced DSM to (once again) shift goalposts and arguments. He went from "Shamans do almost the same damage as mages" then realizing mages do way more cause of those logs and decided "More DPS is completely irrelevant unless you get an extra named/PH cycle from the DPS gain in a session of like 2 hours" which is obviously absurd and no realistic amount of DPS would achieve that. Takes like 20+ minutes for shit to respawn in this game and even with mediocre DPS you're killing it in like a minute. You could literally use his "DPS breakpoint" logic to justify a paladin being just as good as a rogue for a DPS slot in a group. It's insanely stupid. The things he comes up with are mind boggling.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It forced DSM to (once again) shift goalposts and arguments. He went from "Shamans do almost the same damage as mages" then realizing mages do way more cause of those logs and decided "More DPS is completely irrelevant unless you get an extra named/PH cycle from the DPS gain in a session of like 2 hours" which is obviously absurd and no realistic amount of DPS would achieve that. Takes like 20+ minutes for shit to respawn in this game and even with mediocre DPS you're killing it in like a minute. You could literally use his "DPS breakpoint" logic to justify a paladin being just as good as a rogue for a DPS slot in a group. It's insanely stupid. The things he comes up with are mind boggling.

I didn't shift goalposts at all lol. You don't even know what this means. Earlier in thread, the data from Troxx showed Mage Pets do less DPS. His Pet data may still be true for non-Epic Mages, which is the vast majority of Mages. I am just strong manning the argument by using an Epic Pet because it is the highest DPS possible. Updating an argument due to getting new data isn't changing the goalposts, it's just normal procedure lol. And the Epic Mage still doesn't make a significant difference with the DPS breakpoints. It's 4.3 seconds per kill in the case of Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage.

DPS does increase kills per hour silly lol. It just stops doing so after you hit the optimal breakpoint. Going from 100 DPS to 200 DPS saves 40 seconds per kill on a mob with 8000 HP. If you are killing 20 mobs, that is saving 1600 seconds per hour. You are getting more spawn cycles with that much time saved.

Originally Posted by Kich867 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've never heard the take that low level melee twinks are bad at leveling, ever. Am I crazy? Like I honestly can't tell if this is just some stupid contrarian take because you don't like DSM or you've just never given a melee character dope gear and plowed through the beginning of the game before.

No, you are not crazy Kitch867 about Warriors and Enchanters. PlsNoBan is just being a contrarian to try and prove me wrong. He has admitted to being a troll multiple times.

I did talk about downtime, he just doesn't understand that Enchanters from 12-30 have a good chunk of downtime too. For some reason his argument is Enchanter's don't have downtime from 12-30, which is just nonsense. My Enchanter had plenty of downtime from 12-30. But of course, he will probably just say I am a bad player or something, because he has no evidence of downtime comparisons. He also forgot we are talking about grouping, not soloing, so the downtime would be different. He also just discards all data that disagrees with him lol.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I went to velks spiders the other day. I pulled the usual way for current meta (up to 5 mobs a time) and shaman was root rotting adds with epic. So it does happen in a ‘real’ context.

Exactly!

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't shift goalposts at all lol. You don't even know what this means. Earlier in thread, the data from Troxx showed Mage Pets do less DPS. His Pet data may still be true for non-Epic Mages, which is the vast majority of Mages. I am just strong manning the argument by using an Epic Pet because it is the highest DPS possible. Updating an argument due to getting new data isn't changing the goalposts, it's just normal procedure lol. And the Epic Mage still doesn't make a significant difference with the DPS breakpoints. It's 4.3 seconds per kill in the case of Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage.

DPS does increase kills per hour silly lol. It just stops doing so after you hit the optimal breakpoint. Going from 100 DPS to 200 DPS saves 40 seconds per kill on a mob with 8000 HP. If you are killing 20 mobs, that is saving 1600 seconds per hour. You are getting more spawn cycles with that much time saved.




No, you are not crazy Kitch867 about Warriors and Enchanters. PlsNoBan is just being a contrarian to try and prove me wrong. He has admitted to being a troll multiple times.

I did talk about downtime, he just doesn't understand that Enchanters from 12-30 have a good chunk of downtime too. For some reason his argument is Enchanter's don't have downtime from 12-30, which is just nonsense. My Enchanter had plenty of downtime from 12-30. But of course, he will probably just say I am a bad player or something, because he has no evidence of downtime comparisons. He also forgot we are talking about grouping, not soloing, so the downtime would be different. He also just discards all data that disagrees with him lol.



Exactly!

Ah shit. I thought your mom pulled your internet access or something cause you didn't post for like half a day. Was kinda nice not having a post full of complete nonsense every 5 minutes.

You absolutely did and continue to shift goalposts and change your arguments when you're proven wrong. Enchanter downtime is MUCH less than warrior without regen item/buff. The warrior is also most likely fighting mobs much lower level than them to take as little damage as possible cause they aren't regenning for shit. Enchanters typically fight higher level mobs by comparison. The XP difference is fairly noticeable and should be taken into account. But this is probably the dumbest argument you've made. I'd personally steer clear of this one.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ah shit. I thought your mom pulled your internet access or something cause you didn't post for like half a day. Was kinda nice not having a post full of complete nonsense every 5 minutes.

You absolutely did and continue to shift goalposts and change your arguments when you're proven wrong. Enchanter downtime is MUCH less than warrior without regen item/buff. The warrior is also most likely fighting mobs much lower level than them to take as little damage as possible cause they aren't regenning for shit. Enchanters typically fight higher level mobs by comparison. The XP difference is fairly noticeable and should be taken into account. But this is probably the dumbest argument you've made. I'd personally steer clear of this one.

Nah. You need to prove your points with evidence. So far you have provided zero evidence for every argument made in this thread lol.

Enchanters 12-30 have plenty of downtime too due to lower meditation and mana regen buffs (less mana per tick), more fizzling (lower skills), more interrupts (lower channeling), more resists (lower level tash). I leveled an Enchanter from 12-30 recently, I know this very well. I was also leveling my Warrior.

The only proof so far is that you have admitted to being a troll:

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone (including you) has trolled at various points in this thread. Troll posts are not the majority of my posts. I have zero issue admitting when I'm doing so. Unlike some of us [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is one of multiple quotes of you admitting you are trolling. You are incorrect that I am trolling, and are also vastly underestimating the number of troll posts you have made. It is well over 300, and you have around 470 posts in this thread.