ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by AenorVZ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if honorable ned had listened to that ass, he could have prevented a war. Instead, he had to protect children by allowing thousands of children to die to war, sickness, etc.

And, your etc. includes a wife, a son & heir, his castle and lands, many of his people, and his remaining Children are orphans and in the wind. I almost gave up on the series and books because I could not believe Ned's decision-making. That conversation with Renly really deserved more discussion and careful consideration. Ned was really in over his head. I surrendered to it.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by holahouze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And, your etc. includes a wife, a son & heir, his castle and lands, many of his people, and his remaining Children are orphans and in the wind. I almost gave up on the series and books because I could not believe Ned's decision-making. That conversation with Renly really deserved more discussion and careful consideration. Ned was really in over his head. I surrendered to it.

i think people just gave Ned too much credit. he (like Robb) just made a lot of bad decisions. and in Westeros, making bad decisions repeatedly doesnt grant you a long life expectancy.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by AenorVZ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if honorable ned had listened to that ass, he could have prevented a war. Instead, he had to protect children by allowing thousands of children to die to war, sickness, etc.

if Ned had followed his brain instead of honor in any situation things would be different.
telling cersei what he learned? dumb
not leaving the city and going with baelish? dumb
not sending ravens to all of westeros (as opposed to just stannis)? dumb
not taking renly seriously? dumb
thinking a piece of paper would stop cersei? dumb
trusting baelish when confronting cersei? dumb

am i missing anything?

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if Ned had followed his brain instead of honor in any situation things would be different.
telling cersei what he learned? dumb
not leaving the city and going with baelish? dumb
not sending ravens to all of westeros (as opposed to just stannis)? dumb
not taking renly seriously? dumb
thinking a piece of paper would stop cersei? dumb
trusting baelish when confronting cersei? dumb

am i missing anything?

I would emphasize the first was the worst. Well intentioned that it was. While the story needed these things to happen - ugh! Here's a couple more, real quick.

>> He totally sprinted through Gared's beheading. Gared had much to say. He wasn't going anywhere. That was a moment.
>> He allowed the Trident events to overwhelm him, perhaps by not realizing Robert was just a drunk screw-up. Sansa's direwolve dead. Micah dead. Arya's direwolve in the wind.
>> He should have had the writing of Robert's will witnessed and ravens on hand.

[AenorVZ]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if Ned had followed his brain instead of honor in any situation things would be different.
telling cersei what he learned? dumb
not leaving the city and going with baelish? dumb
not sending ravens to all of westeros (as opposed to just stannis)? dumb
not taking renly seriously? dumb
thinking a piece of paper would stop cersei? dumb
trusting baelish when confronting cersei? dumb

am i missing anything?

Yeah Ned was Martin's whipping boy. He was so gleeful with his trope breaking that he really overdid his quest to put the honorable hero trope on its head. In the end it's hard to maintain suspension of disbelief.

[AenorVZ]

This is a fucking tour de force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkdM...BMDwEIVimUAX4m

As much as we (I) bitch about Martin's glacial pace, plot holes and other shortcomings, there comes a moment when you have to just sit back in awe of the intricacy of thought that went into this story.

Ever since Sirks introduced Preston to us, I've been eating it up. I don't wear hats like you peasants, I wear the tinfoil crown, so I believe in all conspiracies. Sirken may quibble, I just lap it up.

The greatest thing ever is Bran being manipulated by Bloodraven while Arya is simultaneously being manipulated by the descendants of Bittersteel. Bravo, GRRM, bravo. I take back all my criticisms.

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i think people just gave Ned too much credit. he (like Robb) just made a lot of bad decisions. and in Westeros, making bad decisions repeatedly doesnt grant you a long life expectancy.

This echoes my interpretation of Ned as well. On the show he was absolutely portrayed as willfully ignorant. A luddite when it came to politics-- especially in the world of Westeros.

Robb was the father like son. Same luddite genetics when it comes to politics and got a chin-check (or gut-check in this case) by a lord just like his father.

Its hard to see them as anything more than tragic figures that couldn't play the Game, and as a function of existing in Martin's world, they were written to define the Game for the readers-- to understand that "This is Westeros".

[holahouze]

And, there is this. I remember once reading that Martin would not allow the show to influence his vision of the story. I wonder what that means now.

http://winteriscoming.net/2016/02/25...ow-killed-off/

[AenorVZ]

Look forward to your thoughts. As far as that bit on the show and series diverging, there was a simple solution to prevent this. Nobody twisted D&D's arms and told them "you absolutely have to blow through the timeline at the fastest possible speed and make a bunch of shit up." They could have just stuck to the books and they wouldn't be this far along in the timeline.

<----- is aware he sounds like a broken record

[AzzarTheGod]

D&D get a little too much respect. In hindsight, they suck.