Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You keep doing this weird bullshit where you equate DPS to time spent per kill and try to calculate how many extra spawns you get for that DPS. Here's a hint: It doesn't matter. You can make the difference between SK and Rogue sound small if you calculate it that way. Everyone is still taking rogue over SK for DPS. It's an extremely dumb argument like most things you have argued. Literally 5 more DPS is objectively better than an extra healer with nothing to heal. An extra slower when everything is already slowed. Whether you like it or not you're playing in a group with subpar players if 2 encs and a cleric needs your extra healing and utility. They don't. Realistically 2 encs and a cleric probably doesn't need a 4th but in this hypothetical if we're gonna force a 4th person then shaman isn't even close to the most optimal choice. This is EXTREMELY simple and obvious. The lengths you're going to try to justify the dumbest shit anyone has ever heard is a weird mixture of impressive and sad. You have openly admitted that other classes than shaman are better for most situations. You keep going back to Ixiblat cause it's one of the only things that is actually a semi understandable argument for your side. Arguing that a shaman's extra heals/utility is needed for KC/Seb/HS or most other content 1-60 and beyond is absolutely ridiculous.

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or seriously believe this shit. I lean towards trolling cause you mistakenly admitted you were wrong once already and have been trying to backpedal ever since. You are very very seriously mentally ill if you believe anyone is buying any of this though.

You keep saying I mistakenly admitted something, but it's just nonsense. Nobody is arguing a Necromancer wouldn't be a good addition to a four man group due to FD. I really don't know why you think this has ever been argued against. Nobody has argued other classes can't contribute to this group either, such as needing Mage if you want CoTH. These aren't revelations, and you can see the post history. It's been said already multiple times, you are simply trying to do some silly gotcha that doesn't even work.

My argument has been the same since page 1: The DPS of the fourth member isn't relevant, which is why utility and safety is better. The data keeps showing this fact. Your strawmen that I said Shamans DPS is higher than a Mage (except via root/rotting), Warriors solo better than Enchanters at higher levels, I have some Shaman fetish, etc., are just that: strawmen. You haven't provided any data, and you have been trolling for 300 posts at least.

The only reason to bring DPS is to get more kills per session. As you keep claiming, the hypothetical group is good enough not to wipe, so it isn't like they need 4 less seconds on a kill to save some mana on healing. If you aren't getting more kills per session, the DPS is useless. Utility and safety on the other hand may save you from an unexpected train, group member DCing due to lag, etc. While these occurrences are unlikely in a skilled group, something is better than nothing. The DPS offers nothing once you hit the ideal breakpoint. Camp options are always nice, since it expands what you can do.

I am sorry, no data so far has supported your point that Mage would be superior, unless you need CoTH. A group with 2x Enchanters and a Cleric is leveling fast enough, it doesn't need the Mage's DPS due to the DPS breakpoints.

For maximum camp options, I would still go with Necro/Enchanter/Mage/Shaman with a level 49 pocket cleric. You hit the DPS breakpoints with this group, and the level 49 pocket cleric can provide CH and reses.

Necro/Enchanter/Mage/Shaman is the group OP picked as well, possibly minus the pocket cleric.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He's now admitted that mage is better at royals and necro is better at fungi king. He's basically just clinging on to shaman being helpful for ixiblat and maybe like WW dragons? He's backed himself into a very tiny corner with his own words at this point. Would ANYBODY base their entire group makeup for 1-60 and beyond around what class makes more sense for Ixiblat? Or would you take a mage/necro that makes more sense in the vast majority of cases? I played actively on blue for YEARS and I think I killed Ixiblat like twice.

This thread really should be over. I know it won't end. But DSM literally backed himself into a tiny corner and the floor has fallen out beneath him. He's dangling by a thread and is going to continue to argue from there I'm sure.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said all of this before, you just aren't reading, as usual. You simply have this strange straw man that I am obsessed with Shamans.

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay so we've established shaman has no place in this hypothetical best 4 man caster group outside of a niche mob or two. You keep bringing up Ixiblat which is one of very few situations where I think shaman might be helpful.

There ya have it boys and girls. If you want the best 4 man caster group for Ixiblat and maybe 1-2 other things put a shaman in there. For 1-60 and 95% of everything else at 60 pick something else.

End of thread.

Sorry your utility is redundant and less relevant than more DPS in this hypothetical group even if it doesn't gain you an additional named/PH spawn in your session. By your own admission shaman is only preferable for a few niche situations. I understand this causes you much distress. I'm sure you'll find a way to get over it eventually. Seems it may take some time though.


P.S. This shouldn't need to be said but we're dealing with an imbecile so. Nobody starting a fresh lvl 1 group (as OP did) is going to level a pocket cleric to 49 and log it in and out every 5 minutes to CH a pet. This is another fucking asinine absolutely absurd idea on top of a pile of other ones you've put forth in this thread.

[cd288]

Lmao I come back here after 48 hours and he’s still going after he accidentally admitted that three ench and cleric is the best 4 person option. DSM did you really have nothing better to do?

Let’s recap the most recent moving of the goalpost here when discussing mage vs shaman. Previously his argument was that he does more dps than a mage. The recent data shows that to be incorrect so now his argument shifts to “well I do less dps but that doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things”

This dude is unreal lmao. Every time he’s wrong he decides to change the argument from what it was before so that he can say he’s not wrong.

[PlsNoBan]

I bet when DSM is leading groups and is LF DPS and gets a tell from a rogue and a paladin he does the math in his head and decides that the rogues DPS won't get him an extra named/PH in the 4 hours he plans on playing and takes the paladin instead for extra heals cause safety is more important

JUST KIDDING NOT EVEN DSM IS DUMB ENOUGH TO DO THAT

.... I hope...

[Toxigen]

i cant believe we're headed to 250

go outside you spergs

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i cant believe we're headed to 250

go outside you spergs

Who's to say I'm not posting from outside right now?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lmao I come back here after 48 hours and he’s still going after he accidentally admitted that three ench and cleric is the best 4 person option. DSM did you really have nothing better to do?

Let’s recap the most recent moving of the goalpost here when discussing mage vs shaman. Previously his argument was that he does more dps than a mage. The recent data shows that to be incorrect so now his argument shifts to “well I do less dps but that doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things”

This dude is unreal lmao. Every time he’s wrong he decides to change the argument from what it was before so that he can say he’s not wrong.

Please show me where I did this. Your lack of reading is astounding.

I never claimed a Shaman deals more damage than a Mage, unless root/rotting.

The question has always been how much difference in DPS is a Shaman compared to a Mage, and if it matters. Clearly the answer is it doesn't matter in a four man group based on the data.

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P.S. This shouldn't need to be said but we're dealing with an imbecile so. Nobody starting a fresh lvl 1 group (as OP did) is going to level a pocket cleric to 49 and log it in and out every 5 minutes to CH a pet. This is another fucking asinine absolutely absurd idea on top of a pile of other ones you've put forth in this thread.

So a fresh group is going to be so pro they don't need a Shaman, but so not pro they can't level a pocket cleric? You are contradicting yourself, yet again. OP never claimed he was a noob, forming a group with other noobs, with no gear what-so-ever.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am very very dumb and do not understand even 1 extra dps is better than heals on targets that don't need heals and slows on targets that are already slowed

Wow I actually agree with DSM here

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So a fresh group is going to be so pro they don't need a Shaman, but so not pro they can't level a pocket cleric?

Oh yeah you're totally right. It only takes like an hour to level a pocket cleric to 49. Everyone will definitely wanna do that so they can log it in and out constantly instead of just making a cleric one of the slots in the group instead of a redundant shaman. Sorry I don't know what I was thinking.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh yeah you're totally right. It only takes like an hour to level a pocket cleric to 49. Everyone will definitely wanna do that so they can log it in and out constantly instead of just making a cleric one of the slots in the group instead of a redundant shaman. Sorry I don't know what I was thinking.

Leveling a pocket cleric to 49 is easy. It's much easier than leveling from 50-60. I thought you were pro enough to know this? You keep claiming you are really good.