Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(Amongst other things)

Thank you for continuing to show you are just a troll. Sadly you couldn't actually stop being a troll for more than one post. It's very easy to see the vast majority of your posts in this thread are silly gifs, nonsense, and a sad post that is a fake medical diagnosis about me. Claiming everybody who disagrees with you is autistic is a poor tactic.

Readers of the thread will note that Troxx still cannot answer a basic question:

"Why would a Shaman use Vindi BP at all if Fungi Tunic is better than Vindi BP"?

This is because Troxx understands that once he explains it, he will support my conclusions. There is a reason why people generally agree that Vindi BP is BiS, and not Fungi Tunic.

FSI is the Min/Max option for Shamans. Regeneration is better while leveling, but Min/Max does not take leveling into account. There is nothing wrong with picking a Shaman race other than Ogre. You'll do fine regardless.

[Troxx]

Fungi vs Vindi bp at 60 after torpor has no bearing on FSI vs racial regen at levels 1-59 or at 60 with torpor.

FSI is not a Vindi BP.

No false equivalency arguments please.

Vindi BP has palpable potential benefits that are clearly defined. It gives a clearly defined boost to ac, hp, stats, and resists. Globally? A strong case can be made that 13 more regen (the fungi) is better than the stats resist. After torpor a case could be made that Vindi bp is globally better. Both stances have merit but most shamans I know simply sold their fungi to buy other things or passed it down to alts after they got torpor.

For me? When I got torpor I gave my fungi to my alt and am using a thurg chain bp. Not that thurg is better but my monk wanted a fungi and I’m poor.

I made that tradeoff and I was fine after it. I WOULD NOT trade racial regen for FSI.

But a Vindi BP is not FSI.

Sorry man, you gotta make the case that a 25% chance to be bashed every 8 seconds on an unslowed mob (far less frequent otherwise) … and with the acknowledgements that most of those bashes won’t result in a stun …

You have to make the argument that THAT benefit (rare though it is) outweighs permanent racial regen over the entire course of your characters life.

So far you just have not done that.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After torpor a case could be made that Vindi bp is globally better. Both stances have merit but most shamans I know simply sold their fungi to buy other things or passed it down to alts after they got torpor.

Exactly. Thank you for agreeing that Vindi BP can be globally better. Thank you for agreeing that you've seen the pattern of Torpor Shamans picking Vindi BP over Fungi Tunic. If most people agreed that passive regeneration was better at level 60 with Torpor, you wouldn't see this trend.

The logic used to explain why Vindi BP is better is the same logic used to explain why FSI is better:

"The random chance to reduce a damage spike is superior to consistent minor passive regeneration on a Torpor Shaman".

There is no false equivalency between Vindi BP and FSI. If passive Regeneration provided more benefit than a random chance to reduce a damage spike, Torpor Shamans would be keeping their Fungi Tunics. Remember that Torpor Shamans are willing to give up 13 passive regeneration to get a random chance at reducing a damage spike through Vindi BP. It's not a stretch to say that they would give up 8 passive regeneration for the same thing through FSI. There is no real way to determine how much Vindi BP is actually helping over Fungi Tunic, but people seem to reach the same consensus that Vindi BP is better.

Thank you for answering the question. As you can see, the trolling wasn't necessary.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry man, you gotta make the case that a 25% chance to be bashed every 8 seconds on an unslowed mob (far less frequent otherwise) … and with the acknowledgements that most of those bashes won’t result in a stun …

You have to make the argument that THAT benefit (rare though it is) outweighs permanent racial regen over the entire course of your characters life.

So far you just have not done that.

[Naethyn]

Vindi bp is nice because you can give your fungi to another alt.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Troxx, simply claiming I haven't proven my case isn't an argument. Thus far I have shown plenty of evidence to support my position, and you agree with what I have said.

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vindi bp is nice because you can give your fungi to another alt.

You wouldn't give Fungi to an alt if you needed it on your main.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You wouldn't give Fungi to an alt if you needed it on your main.

I did. And I didn’t even have a Vindi BP to replace it with.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did. And I didn’t even have a Vindi BP to replace it with.

Exactly. You understand that you don't need the regeneration.

You lost 15 HP regen per tick and gained some mitigation.

With FSI you lose 8 HP regen per tick and gained some mitigation.

It's really that simple. That is why FSI is the best Min/Max option for Shamans. Many people, including yourself, choose mitigation over regen once you have Torpor. You did so when you didn't even have the optimal replacement.

[Toxigen]

some mitigation != some mitigation

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You lost 15 HP regen per tick and gained some mitigation.

My shaman lost his fungi and my monk gained a fungi. My warrior later gained that same fungi. My paladin later gained that same fungi. Fungi is so much better than thug bp on a shaman it’s not even funny.

Point is I had a fungi. My shaman got torpor and for once I could comfortably function without it.

You’re still missing the point lol.

With FSI you lose 8 HP regen per tick and gained some mitigation

No. Read that other thread. FSI only stop the stun component from a bash that lands. Most bashes do not stun. While stunned you still can dodge, parry, block and fire other defensive abilities.

FSI does NOT give you mitigation. It only stops a fairly rare chance that a bash will stun you. For shamans this is only relevant if it interrupted an important spell cast at a moment of time it was important not to be interrupted.

The tradeoff at 60 for this benefit is 8hp/tick standing and 11hp/tick sitting permanent regeneration. The tradeoff before level 60 is literally double (or more depending on level) your baseline racial regen. That’s a whole lot of extra health (mana) over the course of getting to 60. At 60, it still translates to better survivability and mana recovery than FSI ever will.

Quit with the false equivalency argument. Being able to function without a fungi after you have torpor does not mean that FSI is better than innate regeneration- it is an entirely separate discussion.

Remember … I already was able to function without FSI for 60 levels on that shaman. Weirdly, I’ve managed to function just fine on 7 other non-shaman spell casting classes to 6 without FSI.

So far you have made one point:

1) a torpor shaman can function without racial regen

What you have not proven or honestly even made a strong case for (as bcbrown has pointed out) is that the immunity from the fairly uncommon and random brief stun actually has significant value.

Remember his posts? I do. His posts started on page 6 and really came to a head here:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think your argument supporting your opinion is fairly convincing. It is not a proof.

As you are unwilling to provide a proof, allow me to attempt to summarize your argument:

Trolls/Iksars get +8 standing Regen over other races. 8 x 10 x 60 = 4800 HP per hour. That's the equivalent of 3-4 Torpors per hour. 3-4 Torpors per hour is not really significant on a Torpor Shaman. FSI increases your chance of survival before the initial slow on any difficult fight, which can actually be the difference between success and failure. Increasing your survivability during the first minute of a fight (before a mob is slowed) will be better than a small boost to your Mana/HP regeneration on a class that can already fully recover in 3 minutes or less.

Your argument is that the increased survivability of no stuns before a slow during a solo fight is a subjectively better than the (quantifiable) benefit of 4800 HP/hour.

Show me the proof or stop claiming it's provable.

You haven’t actually proven anything.

From practical experience I can honestly say I have never encountered a situation on my shaman or any of my other level 60 caster classes where a bash stun made a difference.

On my bard aoe kiting? Yeah sure. But bards can’t be ogres and when you’re aoe kiting they aren’t hitting you from the front if you mess up.