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#2502
09-12-2022, 10:36 AM
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Then when Allyshia parsed and her Mage did better DPS, DSM changes the argument to "better DPS is meaningless" and is now pretending like he never argued that Shaman's DPS was better than mage This is awesome to watch lmao | |||
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#2503
09-12-2022, 10:39 AM
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#2504
09-12-2022, 10:40 AM
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Please ignore PlsNoBan, Troxx, Cyxthryth, Gloomlord, Karanis, Toxigen, Ripqozko, and Chortles Snortles in this thread. They are just trolling. They have accumulated almost 1000 posts that are literally just memes and insults between them. They shouldn't since this isn't RnF, but they seem to enjoy being silly in this thread.
Reposting the current state of the discussion: Thanks for the logs Allishia! It is much easier to do parsing this way. Based on the logs the Epic Pet is doing 80-90 DPS. For strong manning the argument, I will use a 90 DPS parse that also had a good number of damage shield hits. This is a mana dumping situation, not a situation where you are conserving mana between fights: ======Mage DPS Parse====== In the logs the pet is confirmed to have Burnout IV and a Muzzle. Pet DPS Parse: Pet Damage: 3805 in 42 seconds = 90.6 DPS Scars of Sigil Parse: Scars of Sigil Damage: 3150 in 42 seconds = 75 DPS ======Epic Mage DPS No Damage Shield====== 3805 in 42 seconds = 90.6 DPS 3150 in 42 seconds = 75 DPS for 1225 mana in 14 seconds (no specialization bonus due to spell being Evocation) 1225 - 200 mana from meditate = 1025 mana lost in the minute. 6955 in 42 seconds = 165.6 DPS ======Shaman DPS Parse====== In the logs the pet is confirmed to have Celerity, Maniacal Strength, and Focus of Spirit. Pet DPS Parse: Pet Damage: 940 in 42 seconds = 22.4 DPS Bane of Nife Damage: 150 + (214 x 6) = 1434 for 425 mana in 5 seconds Ice Strike Damage : 675 x 4 = 2700 for 1000 mana in 28 seconds ======Shaman DPS No Damage Shield====== 940 in 42 seconds = 22.4 DPS 4134 in 42 seconds = 98.4 DPS for 1425 mana - 416 mana cannibalized back (Torpor specialization bonus) in 27 seconds = 1009 mana lost in the minute. 5074 in 42 seconds = 120.8 DPS ======DPS Difference without Damage Shield====== Difference without Damage Shield = 165.6 DPS - 120.8 DPS = 44.8 DPS while both the Shaman and Mage spend 1000 mana total ======Damage Shield====== Damage Shield Parse: ======DPS Difference with Damage Shield====== Subtracting 11 from the Damage Shield number. The assumption is there will be an Enchanter in the party, which means you will always have a minimum damage shield of 11 via Feedback. DPS added by damage shield, assuming Epic Pet is Tanking: (50 - 11) x 24 / 42 = 22.3 DPS DPS added by damage shield on slowed mob, assuming Epic Pet is Tanking: (50 - 11) x (24 * 0.3) / 42 = 6.7 DPS DPS added by cast damage shield, assuming Epic Pet is not Tanking: (33 - 11) x 24 / 42 = 12.5 DPS DPS added by cast damage shield on slowed mob, assuming Epic Pet is not Tanking: (33 - 11) x (24 * 0.3) / 42 = 3.8 DPS Difference with Damage Shield = 48.6-67.1 DPS, depending on slow/tanking situation. ======DPS Difference in the Four Man Group====== The two groups are going to be Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman and Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage. According to Troxx's data, the average DPS a level 47 charmed pet with Enchanter haste and a Torch was doing 86 DPS. If two Enchanters are in the group, the DPS is 86 (Enchanter) + 86 (Enchanter) + 120.8 (Shaman) + 6.3 (Enchanter Damage Shield) = 299.1 DPS If two Enchanters are in the group, the DPS is 86 (Enchanter) + 86 (Enchanter) + 165.6 (Mage) + 18.8 (Mage Damage Shield) = 356.4 DPS with a Shaman. DPS Difference in the Four Man Group = 57.3 DPS ======DPS Breakpoints in the Four Man Group====== This is assuming the group is killing a mob with 8000 HP. The mob in the Mage parse had 8000 HP when you include the damage shield damage. 8000 HP / 299.1 DPS = 26.75 seconds per kill. 8000 HP / 356.4 DPS = 22.45 seconds per kill. DPS Difference in kill speed = 4.3 seconds It turns out both sides were right. At least Epic Mages are doing higher DPS than Troxx's data, but the extra DPS doesn't really matter when looking at the breakpoints. We don't have raw log data for a focused level 60 water pet, which will be much more common. Therefore I cannot currently confirm the DPS difference between a normal Mage and an Epic Mage. It is up to the reader to decide if they think 4.3 seconds per kill is worth losing all the utility a Shaman has to offer. This is if choosing an Epic Mage over a Shaman in a four man group where you are choosing between Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage or Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman. For reference, Fungi King has around 18000 HP. That means a group is saving roughly 9 seconds from the extra 50 DPS. For this to give you an extra spawn, you would need to kill Fungi King around 200 times in a row, or camp him for 100 hours straight. I do agree with OP's choice of Necromancer/Enchanter/Shaman/Mage. With this combination you have maximum access to all camps via these classes utility, while hitting the DPS threshold. You could level up a pocket cleric for easier resing and CHing if you desire, you only need to level it to 49 for 90% res and CH.
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#2505
09-12-2022, 10:40 AM
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Lmao | |||
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#2506
09-12-2022, 10:55 AM
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You are probably referring to when I show that root/rotting as a Shaman can match a Mage's DPS, because you are attacking multiple targets at once. That doesn't mean a Shaman will ever out-DPS a Mage on a single target. Epic + 1x Bane of Nife per mob is 34 DPS over 90 seconds. If you are root/rotting 4 mobs, that is 136 DPS, which is higher than a Mage with their pet and restrained nuking. You spend a total of 1700 mana, which can be recovered in roughly 110 seconds.
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Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 09-12-2022 at 10:59 AM..
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#2507
09-12-2022, 11:00 AM
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You literally spent multiple posts talking about how you could out DPS a Mage, including with just Ice Strike and a pet lol. There's a lot of people who I don't really like on these forums, but at least I can respect them when they argue in good faith. You on the other hand literally know you've made argument X before but you sit there and say you haven't...just sad man. | |||
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#2508
09-12-2022, 11:01 AM
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I never said you could out DPS a Mage with Ice Strike and a Pet. That is just 100% wrong. You will not find a single post where I said this. It is scary how much your mind is warping what I say. The Ice Strike and pet example simply shows what a Shaman can do if they are DPS in a chain pulling situation. The point is to compare that to a Mage's DPS, not to show it will out DPS a Mage lol. Again, the only situation where I said a Shaman could match DPS is when root/rotting. Epic + 1x Bane of Nife per mob is 34 DPS over 90 seconds. If you are root/rotting 4 mobs, that is 136 DPS. With pet that is around 154 DPS. So you can get well into a Mage's DPS range under this situation. Root/rotting was brought up because I was simply pointing out a Shaman could do that if a group is clearing trash that could be chain pulled and killed quickly. But that isn't single target scenarios. A Shaman will not out DPS a Mage when doing single target work.
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Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 09-12-2022 at 11:11 AM..
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#2509
09-12-2022, 11:13 AM
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Linear Mode
