ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if Ned had followed his brain instead of honor in any situation things would be different.
telling cersei what he learned? dumb
not leaving the city and going with baelish? dumb
not sending ravens to all of westeros (as opposed to just stannis)? dumb
not taking renly seriously? dumb
thinking a piece of paper would stop cersei? dumb
trusting baelish when confronting cersei? dumb

am i missing anything?

I would emphasize the first was the worst. Well intentioned that it was. While the story needed these things to happen - ugh! Here's a couple more, real quick.

>> He totally sprinted through Gared's beheading. Gared had much to say. He wasn't going anywhere. That was a moment.
>> He allowed the Trident events to overwhelm him, perhaps by not realizing Robert was just a drunk screw-up. Sansa's direwolve dead. Micah dead. Arya's direwolve in the wind.
>> He should have had the writing of Robert's will witnessed and ravens on hand.

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i think people just gave Ned too much credit. he (like Robb) just made a lot of bad decisions. and in Westeros, making bad decisions repeatedly doesnt grant you a long life expectancy.

This echoes my interpretation of Ned as well. On the show he was absolutely portrayed as willfully ignorant. A luddite when it came to politics-- especially in the world of Westeros.

Robb was the father like son. Same luddite genetics when it comes to politics and got a chin-check (or gut-check in this case) by a lord just like his father.

Its hard to see them as anything more than tragic figures that couldn't play the Game, and as a function of existing in Martin's world, they were written to define the Game for the readers-- to understand that "This is Westeros".

[AenorVZ]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if Ned had followed his brain instead of honor in any situation things would be different.
telling cersei what he learned? dumb
not leaving the city and going with baelish? dumb
not sending ravens to all of westeros (as opposed to just stannis)? dumb
not taking renly seriously? dumb
thinking a piece of paper would stop cersei? dumb
trusting baelish when confronting cersei? dumb

am i missing anything?

Yeah Ned was Martin's whipping boy. He was so gleeful with his trope breaking that he really overdid his quest to put the honorable hero trope on its head. In the end it's hard to maintain suspension of disbelief.

[AenorVZ]

This is a fucking tour de force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkdM...BMDwEIVimUAX4m

As much as we (I) bitch about Martin's glacial pace, plot holes and other shortcomings, there comes a moment when you have to just sit back in awe of the intricacy of thought that went into this story.

Ever since Sirks introduced Preston to us, I've been eating it up. I don't wear hats like you peasants, I wear the tinfoil crown, so I believe in all conspiracies. Sirken may quibble, I just lap it up.

The greatest thing ever is Bran being manipulated by Bloodraven while Arya is simultaneously being manipulated by the descendants of Bittersteel. Bravo, GRRM, bravo. I take back all my criticisms.

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by AenorVZ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a fucking tour de force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkdM...BMDwEIVimUAX4m

As much as we (I) bitch about Martin's glacial pace, plot holes and other shortcomings, there comes a moment when you have to just sit back in awe of the intricacy of thought that went into this story.

Ever since Sirks introduced Preston to us, I've been eating it up. I don't wear hats like you peasants, I wear the tinfoil crown, so I believe in all conspiracies. Sirken may quibble, I just lap it up.

The greatest thing ever is Bran being manipulated by Bloodraven while Arya is simultaneously being manipulated by the descendants of Bittersteel. Bravo, GRRM, bravo. I take back all my criticisms.

Don't have much time this morning, but i did watch the Preston's 4 & 5 vids. Some interesting stuff in there, I agree. I have a quibble and a question. I would be disappointed to find that House of B&W only had one world class assassin on Jaqen's level because i envisioned it as a bigger operation. And, in order to make sense of a current Bloodraven - Bittersteel rivalry, we need to establish that the Team Bittersteel knows about Bloodraven & what he's up to. Is that done in vids 1-3?? Thanks. Later.

[AenorVZ]

Originally Posted by holahouze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't have much time this morning, but i did watch the Preston's 4 & 5 vids. Some interesting stuff in there, I agree. I have a quibble and a question. I would be disappointed to find that House of B&W only had one world class assassin on Jaqen's level because i envisioned it as a bigger operation. And, in order to make sense of a current Bloodraven - Bittersteel rivalry, we need to establish that the Team Bittersteel knows about Bloodraven & what he's up to. Is that done in vids 1-3?? Thanks. Later.

No, Preston doesn't explain how Team Bittersteel knew that:

A. Bloodraven is still alive and a player in world affairs

B. Jaqen knew about the glass candle

Doubtless the little green men tipped Preston off. You know nothing holahouze.

As far as Jaqen being the only assassin on his level, if they sent him after Bloodraven he's undoubtedly the best. But if the Faceless Men are pulling those kinds of contracts, they've got a lot of resources and probably have more assassins in the pipeline in case their A Team ever fails. If Jaqen can arrange for a Bravosi ship to twiddle its thumbs in Saltpans hoping Arya shows up, yeah, the Faceless Men got resources.

Speaking of the A Team, what's up with Biter going after Brienne? If they had Arya assassinate the old dude who was insuring Selwyn Tarth's ships, why wouldn't they try to capture her and hold her for ransom to keep Tarth's navy from interfering with Aegon's invasion?

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by AenorVZ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, Preston doesn't explain how Team Bittersteel knew that:

A. Bloodraven is still alive and a player in world affairs

B. Jaqen knew about the glass candle

Doubtless the little green men tipped Preston off. You know nothing holahouze.

As far as Jaqen being the only assassin on his level, if they sent him after Bloodraven he's undoubtedly the best. But if the Faceless Men are pulling those kinds of contracts, they've got a lot of resources and probably have more assassins in the pipeline in case their A Team ever fails. If Jaqen can arrange for a Bravosi ship to twiddle its thumbs in Saltpans hoping Arya shows up, yeah, the Faceless Men got resources.

Speaking of the A Team, what's up with Biter going after Brienne? If they had Arya assassinate the old dude who was insuring Selwyn Tarth's ships, why wouldn't they try to capture her and hold her for ransom to keep Tarth's navy from interfering with Aegon's invasion?

Thanks. So true, but I do know one thing = i know nothing. I'm thick as a castle wall. I want to spend more time on this when i have some free time, as some of that stuff has drifted pretty far away from my memories and thinking.

[holahouze]

And, there is this. I remember once reading that Martin would not allow the show to influence his vision of the story. I wonder what that means now.

http://winteriscoming.net/2016/02/25...ow-killed-off/

[AenorVZ]

Look forward to your thoughts. As far as that bit on the show and series diverging, there was a simple solution to prevent this. Nobody twisted D&D's arms and told them "you absolutely have to blow through the timeline at the fastest possible speed and make a bunch of shit up." They could have just stuck to the books and they wouldn't be this far along in the timeline.

<----- is aware he sounds like a broken record

[AzzarTheGod]

D&D get a little too much respect. In hindsight, they suck.