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#2581
09-12-2022, 06:36 PM
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I have admitted to zero trolling. Quite the contrary! In irrefutable fact - which you cannot refute - I have challenged you calling me a troll and have asked you to provide proof/evidence of my "trolling". You have not provided - and seemingly cannot provide - any evidence that supports your claim, hence your claim is unsubstantiated - and false. Your post would seem to indicate that you believe that others "want to shut you up"? Oh quite the contrary! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I have been attempting to continue having a civil discussion with you, but you have repeatedly ignored my posts and dodged my questions hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Quote:
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Again, you bring up accusations of insults/memes/trolling, but you have provided no evidence of me doing any such activities. I present this thread and both of our post histories as evidence, and you have not provided - and seemingly cannot provide - any counter-evidence. If you are capable of engaging in civil discussion to back up your points with data that is relevant to the discussion, you may choose to start replying and doing so (rather than calling me a troll) at any time hehe. It really isn't hard. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] In the event that this post is ignored, I submit it as further evidence that DSM has ignored my posts hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] | ||||||
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Last edited by cyxthryth; 09-12-2022 at 06:39 PM..
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#2582
09-12-2022, 06:45 PM
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yall are too funny with the back and forth in this thread
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#2583
09-12-2022, 06:54 PM
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1: Mage is a better group DPS class than Shaman
2: Enchanters solo better than Warriors These statements are not up for debate amongst sane human beings Why does <Vanquish> allow DSM to be a member? | |||
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#2584
09-12-2022, 06:56 PM
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It really isn't hard. I am not sure why DSM seemingly continues to choose not to reply as if he has been backed into a corner "arguing" from bad faith (even though this is intended to be a civil discussion - not an argument) - I've asked multiple times. | |||
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#2585
09-12-2022, 06:56 PM
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The vast majority of all the posts you have made on this forum are just trolls/memes/insults, and you have admitted to trolling. It is clear you are the troll here lol. I am not sure how you think you can and try and paint yourself otherwise. If you want to have a discussion, bring some evidence to back up your points, instead of just trolls/memes/insults and fallacies. Or admit you are wrong and stop posting. Quote:
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#2586
09-12-2022, 07:19 PM
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To say I've been "trolling" would imply that I've been deliberately inflammatory and obtuse for its merest sake. Insulting you, because I believe you deserve to be insulted, does not count.
I'm not guilty of that, DSM. You, however, are guilty of both -- in order to cover for your insecurity over the shaman class, and your inane disdain for the mage class. | ||
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#2587
09-12-2022, 07:22 PM
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That honestly is some silly mental gymnastics. There is no reason why I "deserve" to be insulted, other than your desire to troll instead of provide a coherent argument. It is extremely arrogant and delusional to assume you are some arbiter who can judge who is worthy of insult.
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#2588
09-12-2022, 07:22 PM
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inb4 argumentum ad populum marcus aurelius
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1: Mage is a better group DPS class than Shaman
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#2589
09-12-2022, 07:25 PM
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#2590
09-12-2022, 07:26 PM
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Please ignore PlsNoBan, Troxx, Cyxthryth, Gloomlord, Karanis, Toxigen, Ripqozko, and Chortles Snortles in this thread. They are just trolling. They have accumulated almost 1000 posts that are literally just memes and insults between them. They shouldn't since this isn't RnF, but they seem to enjoy being silly in this thread.
Reposting the current state of the discussion: Thanks for the logs Allishia! It is much easier to do parsing this way. Based on the logs the Epic Pet is doing 80-90 DPS. For strong manning the argument, I will use a 90 DPS parse that also had a good number of damage shield hits. This is a mana dumping situation, not a situation where you are conserving mana between fights: ======Mage DPS Parse====== In the logs the pet is confirmed to have Burnout IV and a Muzzle. Pet DPS Parse: Pet Damage: 3805 in 42 seconds = 90.6 DPS Scars of Sigil Parse: Scars of Sigil Damage: 3150 in 42 seconds = 75 DPS ======Epic Mage DPS No Damage Shield====== 3805 in 42 seconds = 90.6 DPS 3150 in 42 seconds = 75 DPS for 1225 mana in 14 seconds (no specialization bonus due to spell being Evocation) 1225 - 200 mana from meditate = 1025 mana lost in the minute. 6955 in 42 seconds = 165.6 DPS ======Shaman DPS Parse====== In the logs the pet is confirmed to have Celerity, Maniacal Strength, and Focus of Spirit. Pet DPS Parse: Pet Damage: 940 in 42 seconds = 22.4 DPS Bane of Nife Damage: 150 + (214 x 6) = 1434 for 425 mana in 5 seconds Ice Strike Damage : 675 x 4 = 2700 for 1000 mana in 28 seconds ======Shaman DPS No Damage Shield====== 940 in 42 seconds = 22.4 DPS 4134 in 42 seconds = 98.4 DPS for 1425 mana - 416 mana cannibalized back (Torpor specialization bonus) in 27 seconds = 1009 mana lost in the minute. 5074 in 42 seconds = 120.8 DPS ======DPS Difference without Damage Shield====== Difference without Damage Shield = 165.6 DPS - 120.8 DPS = 44.8 DPS while both the Shaman and Mage spend 1000 mana total ======Damage Shield====== Damage Shield Parse: ======DPS Difference with Damage Shield====== Subtracting 11 from the Damage Shield number. The assumption is there will be an Enchanter in the party, which means you will always have a minimum damage shield of 11 via Feedback. DPS added by damage shield, assuming Epic Pet is Tanking: (50 - 11) x 24 / 42 = 22.3 DPS DPS added by damage shield on slowed mob, assuming Epic Pet is Tanking: (50 - 11) x (24 * 0.3) / 42 = 6.7 DPS DPS added by cast damage shield, assuming Epic Pet is not Tanking: (33 - 11) x 24 / 42 = 12.5 DPS DPS added by cast damage shield on slowed mob, assuming Epic Pet is not Tanking: (33 - 11) x (24 * 0.3) / 42 = 3.8 DPS Difference with Damage Shield = 48.6-67.1 DPS, depending on slow/tanking situation. ======DPS Difference in the Four Man Group====== The two groups are going to be Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman and Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage. According to Troxx's data, the average DPS a level 47 charmed pet with Enchanter haste and a Torch was doing 86 DPS. If two Enchanters are in the group, the DPS is 86 (Enchanter) + 86 (Enchanter) + 120.8 (Shaman) + 6.3 (Enchanter Damage Shield) = 299.1 DPS If two Enchanters are in the group, the DPS is 86 (Enchanter) + 86 (Enchanter) + 165.6 (Mage) + 18.8 (Mage Damage Shield) = 356.4 DPS with a Shaman. DPS Difference in the Four Man Group = 57.3 DPS ======DPS Breakpoints in the Four Man Group====== This is assuming the group is killing a mob with 8000 HP. The mob in the Mage parse had 8000 HP when you include the damage shield damage. 8000 HP / 299.1 DPS = 26.75 seconds per kill. 8000 HP / 356.4 DPS = 22.45 seconds per kill. DPS Difference in kill speed = 4.3 seconds It turns out both sides were right. At least Epic Mages are doing higher DPS than Troxx's data, but the extra DPS doesn't really matter when looking at the breakpoints. We don't have raw log data for a focused level 60 water pet, which will be much more common. Therefore I cannot currently confirm the DPS difference between a normal Mage and an Epic Mage. It is up to the reader to decide if they think 4.3 seconds per kill is worth losing all the utility a Shaman has to offer. This is if choosing an Epic Mage over a Shaman in a four man group where you are choosing between Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage or Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman. For reference, Fungi King has 17750 HP according to the wiki. That means a group with a Shaman is killing him in 59.3 seconds, and a group with a mage is killing him in 49.8 seconds. That means you are saving a grand total of 9.5 seconds per Fungi King/PH kill. You would kill Fungi King (1620 seconds respawn / 9.5 second saved) = 170 times in a row to get an extra spawn. That is 85 hours continuously camping the mob. I do agree with OP's choice of Necromancer/Enchanter/Shaman/Mage. With this combination you have maximum access to all camps via these classes utility, while hitting the DPS threshold. You could level up a pocket cleric for easier resing and CHing if you desire, you only need to level it to 49 for 90% res and CH.
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