Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Karanis]

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[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you have not explained why 1 DPS is superior. It offers nothing if you aren't gaining more kills per hour. You just keep pretending you explained it somewhere.

Dude for the love of god...

I would bet my fucking life savings that if shamans did 1 more DPS than mages we'd have 800+ wall of text napkin math filled posts about how important that 1 extra DPS is. You are the most dishonest arguer on planet earth.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dude for the love of god...

I would bet my fucking life savings that if shamans did 1 more DPS than mages we'd have 800+ wall of text napkin math filled posts about how important that 1 extra DPS is. You are the most dishonest arguer on planet earth.

Not at all. If Shamans did 1 more DPS it would be just as irrelevant.

You bring DPS to hit the necessary DPS breakpoints to maximize your kills per hour. Once you hit that it isn't necessary to bring more.

Again, if you save 4 seconds per kill, and are killing 20 mobs per 30 minutes, you save a paultry 80 seconds per cycle. I doubt anybody is going to split hairs over AFKing for 21 minutes vs. 20 minutes while waiting for respawns, and it would take you 11 hours to see one extra cycle.

There is just no benefit, and you keep dodging that fact.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not at all. If Shamans did 1 more DPS it would be just as irrelevant.

You bring DPS to hit the necessary DPS breakpoints to maximize your kills per hour. Once you hit that it isn't necessary to bring more.

Again, if you save 4 seconds per kill, and are killing 20 mobs per 30 minutes, you save a paultry 80 seconds per cycle. I doubt anybody is going to split hairs over AFKing for 21 minutes vs. 20 minutes while waiting for respawns, and it would take you 11 hours to see one extra cycle.

There is just no benefit, and you keep dodging that fact.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You wouldn't cast Malo/Slow on mobs dying in 30 seconds, so I am not sure why you are even talking about that.

Let's continue our civil discussion guys!

According to DSM, you would not Malo/Slow mobs dying in 30 seconds. In the context of a high level fast-paced killing DPS group, this would presumably be most mobs.

What value does a Shaman add to Enc/Enc/Clr group over a Mage if the Shaman will (as has been irrefutably stated by DSM in this thread) not utilize Malo or Slow for most of the mobs the group is killing hehe? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not at all. If Shamans did 1 more DPS it would be just as irrelevant.

You bring DPS to hit the necessary DPS breakpoints to maximize your kills per hour. Once you hit that it isn't necessary to bring more.

Again, if you save 4 seconds per kill, and are killing 20 mobs per 30 minutes, you save a paultry 80 seconds per cycle. I doubt anybody is going to split hairs over AFKing for 21 minutes vs. 20 minutes while waiting for respawns, and it would take you 11 hours to see one extra cycle.

There is just no benefit, and you keep dodging that fact.

There IS benefit. Even by your own admission in this very post. It's not uncommon for P99 players to play 11 hours lol but that's besides the point. Even if you only saved 5 minutes time in your entire play session that is still a benefit. Admittedly a small one. Guess what though? It's still a greater benefit than a shaman healing someone with full HP or slowing an already slowed mob. Because that is truly ZERO benefit. A shaman in this group would be doing nothing but DPSing because everything else is covered. A mage provides more DPS.

Small benefit > No benefit

and YOU keep dodging that fact. I have dodged nothing. Even if mage is only 0.000001% better. The question is what is the BEST 4 person caster/priest setup. No matter how slightly better they are. Even if its so small you literally can't notice. Better is better.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There IS benefit. Even by your own admission in this very post. It's not uncommon for P99 players to play 11 hours lol but that's besides the point. Even if you only saved 5 minutes time in your entire play session that is still a benefit. Admittedly a small one. Guess what though? It's still a greater benefit than a shaman healing someone with full HP or slowing an already slowed mob. Because that is truly ZERO benefit. A shaman in this group would be doing nothing but DPSing because everything else is covered. A mage provides more DPS.

Small benefit > No benefit

and YOU keep dodging that fact.

I am not dodging it at all. The problem is you think that 5 minutes will matter. It isn't increasing your kills per hour, it is just giving you 1 extra AFK minute per cycle, which isn't going to be noticed by anyone. Your group will still finish the last cycle before they stop.

Most people don't play 11 hours or more in groups. The other thing you forget is playing 11 hours straight increases your chances of wiping due to fatigue, but having a Shaman decreases those chances. Saving even 1 wipe in those 11 hours is going to save you a ton of time.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not dodging it at all. The problem is you think that 5 minutes will matter. It isn't increasing your kills per hour, it is just giving you 1 extra AFK minute per cycle, which isn't going to be noticed by anyone. Your group will still finish the last cycle before the stop.

Most people don't play 11 hours or more in groups. The other thing you forget is playing 11 hours straight increases your chances of wiping, but having a Shaman decreases those chances. Saving even 1 wipe in those 11 hours is going to save you a ton of time.

It doesn't matter if you save 1 second. Saving 1 second is a benefit greater than 0 benefit. There are a TON of P99 players that regularly play 11 hours or more. Like a fucking shitload of them. I used to be one and I knew many people that played more than me. You keep assuming the group is going to wipe which in my experience almost never happens with this class makeup. You also assume that even if it were to wipe that a shaman instead of a mage would prevent that wipe. Both things you have no proof for. I assume you're going off of experience of your groups wiping a lot. Mine didn't. Neither of us have data to support this other than our personal experiences. But unfortunately the assumption in this argument is that the players are all good and know how to play their classes well. In this situation a chance of wipe is extremely minimal. Someone would have to be basically AFK or someone would have to train you. In either case a shaman likely isn't preventing that wipe.

If someone asked you what the fastest car was and you had car A with a top speed of 261 mph and car B with a top speed of 261.05 mph. Would you argue that car A is the correct answer cause .05 mph isn't relevant? That's not how logic works my friend.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't matter if you save 1 second. Saving 1 second is a benefit greater than 0 benefit. There are a TON of P99 players that regularly play 11 hours or more. Like a fucking shitload of them. I used to be one and I knew many people that played more than me. You keep assuming the group is going to wipe which in my experience almost never happens with this class makeup. You also assume that even if it were to wipe that a shaman instead of a mage would prevent that wipe. Both things you have no proof for. I assume you're going off of experience of your groups wiping a lot. Mine didn't. Neither of us have data to support this other than our personal experiences. But unfortunately the assumption in this argument is that the players are all good and know how to play their classes well. In this situation a chance of wipe is extremely minimal. Someone would have to be basically AFK or someone would have to train you. In either case a shaman likely isn't preventing that wipe.

If someone asked you what the fastest car was and you had car A with a top speed of 261 mph and car B with a top speed of 261.05 mph. Would you argue that car A is the correct answer cause .05 mph isn't relevant? That's not how logic works my friend.

Again, your analogies are silly. I would prefer a car that goes 261 miles per hour and has better steering capabilities than a car that just has 261.05 mph and less steering capabilities. You are simply too focused on DPS to see that.

If your group is going 11 hours in a single session, you have an increased chance of wiping due to fatigue. You just keep assuming everybody is playing perfect forever. I am sorry, but you aren't as pro as you think. You just keep saying this because it is all you have.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would prefer a car that goes 261 miles per hour and has better steering capabilities than a car that just has 261.05 mph and less steering capabilities.

I would agree with you on this. Except a shaman doesn't have better steering capabilities. It has healing and utility that is already covered in the group and not needed. It brings nothing but mediocre DPS to this group composition. Which a mage provides better. Doesn't matter if it means extra spawns or not. Once again better is better and you cannot heal full HP targets.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He's now admitted that mage is better at royals and necro is better at fungi king. He's basically just clinging on to shaman being helpful for ixiblat and maybe like WW dragons? He's backed himself into a very tiny corner with his own words at this point. Would ANYBODY base their entire group makeup for 1-60 and beyond around what class makes more sense for Ixiblat? Or would you take a mage/necro that makes more sense in the vast majority of cases? I played actively on blue for YEARS and I think I killed Ixiblat like twice.

This thread really should be over. I know it won't end. But DSM literally backed himself into a tiny corner and the floor has fallen out beneath him. He's dangling by a thread and is going to continue to argue from there I'm sure.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said all of this before, you just aren't reading, as usual. You simply have this strange straw man that I am obsessed with Shamans.

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay so we've established shaman has no place in this hypothetical best 4 man caster group outside of a niche mob or two. You keep bringing up Ixiblat which is one of very few situations where I think shaman might be helpful.

There ya have it boys and girls. If you want the best 4 man caster group for Ixiblat and maybe 1-2 other things put a shaman in there. For 1-60 and 95% of everything else at 60 pick something else.

End of thread.

Reminder: You admitted shaman is only better for niche shit like ixiblat. Not sure why you insist on backpedaling so hard. You were so close to being honest for a brief moment [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]