Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mega yikes. I wouldn't bother writing these long paragraphs, since none of it makes sense anyway. You're just wasting your time doing this instead of providing evidence. You just keep rehashing your obvious strawmen because you can't address my arguments directly.

The evidence is already provided. Much of it by yourself. The evidence is contrary to your argument though unfortunately. You continue to argue your opinion as fact then ask others to provide evidence which is quite silly.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You sure do like saying mega yikes now, new catchphrase?

Lol I was literally about to say he seems super fixated on mega yikes now

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence is already provided. Much of it by yourself. The evidence is contrary to your argument though unfortunately. You continue to argue your opinion as fact then ask others to provide evidence which is quite silly.

You keep saying that, but it simply isn't true. You can math out the numbers. I am not sure why this bothers you so much. The evidence is already there, and you have none of your own. DPS has it's breakpoints in a game with long respawn timers. Your preference on killing something 1 second faster doesn't mean you are benefiting from that.

I am asking the person who hasn't provided any evidence for their claims so far to do so lol. I don't think that is unreasonable, considering other people (including myself) have provided evidence.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You keep saying that, but it simply isn't true. You can math out the numbers. I am not sure why this bothers you so much. The evidence is already there, and you have none of your own. DPS has it's breakpoints in a game with long respawn timers. Your preference on killing something 1 second faster doesn't mean you are benefiting from that.

I am asking the person who hasn't provided any evidence for their claims so far to do so lol. I don't think that is unreasonable, considering other people (including myself) have provided evidence.

If your argument is DPS literally doesn't matter at all beyond what the 2 enchanters are able to output (they reach your "breakpoints" without any help) then why did you post literally hundreds of times and bother with all the shaman vs mage data comparisons? It's almost as if you change your arguments to suit your needs constantly? If your OPINION was "DPS beyond 2 charms is 100% irrelevant and I'd rather have extra unnecessary heals cause my groups suck and I don't think a cleric could do it alone" then why all the bothering with parses and trying to prove how much DPS your dumb shaman does?

[Karanis]

Giga yikers!

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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If your argument is DPS literally doesn't matter at all beyond what the 2 enchanters are able to output (they reach your "breakpoints" without any help) then why did you post literally hundreds of times and bother with all the shaman vs mage data comparisons? It's almost as if you change your arguments to suit your needs constantly? If your OPINION was "DPS beyond 2 charms is 100% irrelevant and I'd rather have extra unnecessary heals cause my groups suck and I don't think a cleric could do it alone" then why all the bothering with parses and trying to prove how much DPS your dumb shaman does?

The Shaman and Mage parses are to show the gap between the classes DPS wise, so you can clearly see how much time you save per kill. That has always been the purpose, and hasn't changed. I didn't think I would need to explain the DPS breakpoints initially, because I had assumed people already understood this.

If I had just claimed the DPS breakpoints were hit already without the Mage, you obviously wouldn't have believed me.

Data is much harder to argue against.

It is also silly you keep claiming good players never die. I know you don't believe this, or you would say 4x Enchanters are the best. Why bother with the Cleric at all?

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is also silly you keep claiming good players never die. I know you don't believe this, or you would say 4x Enchanters are the best. Why bother with the Cleric at all?

I have specifically said 4 good players *WITH THIS GROUP COMPOSITION* will basically never die. 4 warriors will wipe a lot. Another extremely dishonest DSM argument what a shocker. A cleric adds the safety net that 2-3 insanely overpowered classes (enchanters) may need if they fuck up. You have a huge boner for adding a safety net to the safety net for some reason. I can only assume it's because your experience is with shit groups that need it. If you play EQ as well as you argue on elf forums I can understand why you'd be wiping frequently.

Someone would have to royally fuck up in a manner in which a shaman likely wouldn't have saved them anyway in order for this group to wipe doing most any group content. 4 enchanters is doable without too much risk if everyone is on point. 3 with a cleric is nearly untouchable for most content. Or really 2 + cleric + anything else. Before you say some idiot shit like "SEE TOLD U DPS DOESN'T MATTER". I've fully admitted this like a dozen times. We're arguing over what's "best" for 4th slot in a group that really only needs 3 people to do almost any group content in this game. I believe DPS stacks infinitely and utility/heals do not. So for marginal gain on the 4th slot add as much dps as you can. Everything else is covered that matters.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A cleric adds the safety net that 2-3 insanely overpowered classes (enchanters) may need if they fuck up.

Precisely. Saftey matters, and players can screw up. Glad we finally agree on that without your silly idea that players never die.

The math shows DPS breakpoints have high diminishing returns after a certain point. When you don't need more DPS, more utility and camp options are simply better because they offer something.

If you are killing 20 mobs with a Shaman in 30 minutes, and 20 mobs with a Mage in 30 minutes, both groups are in the same position, so DPS is no longer helping. You just aren't saving enough time anymore to get more kills.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Precisely. Saftey matters, and players can screw up. Glad we finally agree on that without your silly idea that players never die.

The math shows DPS breakpoints have high diminishing returns after a certain point. When you don't need more DPS, more utility and camp options are simply better because they offer something.

If you are killing 20 mobs with a Shaman in 30 minutes, and 20 mobs with a Mage in 30 minutes, both groups are in the same position, so DPS is no longer helping. You just aren't saving enough time anymore to get more kills.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You wouldn't cast Malo/Slow on mobs dying in 30 seconds, so I am not sure why you are even talking about that.

Let's continue our civil discussion guys!

According to DSM, you would not Malo/Slow mobs dying in 30 seconds. In the context of a high level fast-paced killing DPS group, this would presumably be most mobs.

What value does a Shaman add to Enc/Enc/Clr group over a Mage if the Shaman will (as has been irrefutably stated by DSM in this thread) not utilize Malo or Slow for most of the mobs the group is killing hehe? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Karanis]

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