Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Toxigen]

jesus titty fuckin christ

shut the fuck up

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Precisely. Saftey matters, and players can screw up

I never denied that safety matters. The cleric provides plenty of it and it does not stack infinitely as DPS does. You would not bring 3 clerics to a group for extra safety. One cleric is plenty. You also seem to completely ignore that you can be killing extra mobs outside of whatever PH you're camping. Fungi king as an example you can pull trash mobs all the way back to the jail cells beyond the zoneout room and all the way to juggs if you so choose. There's no lack of mobs to pull in this area if nobody else is camping nearby (which most often there is nobody else in the area). You may not gain an extra PH cycle but you CERTAINLY can gain more kills. There are way more than 30 mobs in pulling range. I've been in groups killing fast enough that I'm literally pulling half of a zone at times. If everyone is lvl 60 with max XP it's less useful but not completely irrelevant. There's trash loot to gain and zone drops in certain zones or multiple named camps you can be pulling. If you ONLY care about fungi king PH you can just sit there and kill like 4 spawns over and over but that's extremely boring. Most people don't want to kill 4 spawns and AFK for 20-25 minutes. You're being purposely obtuse here to support an idiotic argument that you refuse to back off of.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never denied that safety matters. The cleric provides plenty of it and it does not stack infinitely as DPS does. You would not bring 3 clerics to a group for extra safety. One cleric is plenty. You also seem to completely ignore that you can be killing extra mobs outside of whatever PH you're camping. Fungi king as an example you can pull trash mobs all the way back to the jail cells beyond the zoneout room and all the way to juggs if you so choose. There's no lack of mobs to pull in this area if nobody else is camping nearby (which most often there is nobody else in the area). You may not gain an extra PH cycle but you CERTAINLY can gain more kills. There are way more than 30 mobs in pulling range. I've been in groups killing fast enough that I'm literally pulling half of a zone at times. If everyone is lvl 60 with max XP it's less useful but not completely irrelevant. There's trash loot to gain and zone drops in certain zones or multiple named camps you can be pulling. You're being purposely obtuse here to support an idiotic argument that you refuse to back off of.

Exactly. Safety matters, and a Shaman will help your group with DPS, utility, safety, and camp options all at the same time.

I am not ignoring the ability to kill outside mobs. There are simply a few problems here:

1. I haven't seen a Fungi King group pull trash in-between pulls. It's an unnecessary risk, and it is a pain to get back down there if you have to zone or wipe. You also risk losing the camp to another group. The point of camping Fungi King is to get Fungi Tunics, not to XP or get vendor trash.

2. When pulling mobs from outside of your camp radius, you are losing a lot of time due to travel/pull times. You aren't killing mobs very efficiently at that point anyway. The four extra seconds per kill isn't helping there either, because there is a lot more variability in the time it takes for the mob to get back to camp in the first place, depending on how consistent the puller is.

3. The only thing that has been ignored is the fact that a Shaman could root/rot trash if the group really wanted faster kill speeds when pulling trash in-between Fungi king spawns. Just because you don't like the idea doesn't mean you can't do it. I would never pull trash in-between Fungi King spawns, but you seem to think it's a good idea, and it is certainly doable.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly. Safety matters, and a Shaman will help your group with DPS, utility, safety, and camp options all at the same time.

I am not ignoring the ability to kill outside mobs. There are simply a few problems here:

1. I haven't seen a Fungi King group pull trash in-between pulls. It's an unnecessary risk, and it is a pain to get back down there if you have to zone or wipe. You also risk losing the camp to another group. The point of camping Fungi King is to get Fungi Tunics, not to XP or get vendor trash.

2. When pulling mobs from outside of your camp radius, you are losing a lot of time due to travel/pull times. You aren't killing mobs very efficiently at that point anyway. The four extra seconds per kill isn't helping there either, because there is a lot more variability in the time it takes for the mob to get back to camp in the first place, depending on how consistent the puller is.

3. The only thing that has been ignored is the fact that a Shaman could root/rot trash if the group really wanted faster kill speeds when pulling trash in-between Fungi king spawns. Just because you don't like the idea doesn't mean you can't do it. I would never pull trash in-between Fungi King spawns, but you seem to think it's a good idea, and it is certainly doable.

There is more than enough safety and utility in this group. You seem to think it stacks infinitely and it does not. You also acknowledge it by saying bringing 3 clerics is silly but your love for shaman is so deep that you refuse to believe that just maybe this group doesn't need utility and safety that the group already has a sufficient amount of. The only thing to be gained in this group setup is DPS. Even a marginal gain is better than no gain.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is more than enough safety and utility in this group. You seem to think it stacks infinitely and it does not. You also acknowledge it by saying bringing 3 clerics is silly but your love for shaman is so deep that you refuse to believe that just maybe this group doesn't need utility and safety that the group already has a sufficient amount of. The only thing to be gained in this group setup is DPS. Even a marginal gain is better than no gain.

Safety does stack. Having 2 healers means multiple people can be healed at the same time. Having a dedicated slower in the Shaman allows the Enchanters to focus on keeping their pets in check to minimize DPS loss from Charm Breaks.

The 4 Cleric example is not relevant because nobody has argued for 4 clerics. It goes against my DPS breakpoint argument, because that group wouldn't hit the necessary breakpoint to kill efficiently at that point.

The flaw with the idea that DPS stacks infinitely is DPS is an exponential function. Every time you double DPS, your returns will halve. So yes, you could do 800 DPS to a mob with 8000 HP, and it would die in 10 seconds. But the difference between 800 DPS and 700 DPS is 1.4 seconds. You are never going to get another spawn in a single session by saving 1.4 seconds, and the damage saved by killing it 1.4 seconds faster could easily be healed by the Shaman.

This is why only stacking DPS isn't the best idea when trying to maximize a group composition. You want enough DPS to maximize your kills per hour, and everything else goes into safety and maximizing camp options. I would much rather have more camp options than an extra 30 seconds AFK time when in-between mob cycles. At the end of the day the Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman and Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage groups are killing the same number of mobs per hour.

[cd288]

Ladies and gentlemen, DSM is almost at 900 posts in this thread. Amazingly absurd. Many people have come and gone from the discussion telling him he's wrong, but apparently that just means everyone else is wrong not DSM.

Can he break 1,000 with his sanctimonious paragraph length posts? Will we get even more new joiners telling him he's incorrect who he will just ignore and call trolls? Or will he find something better to do with his life and shock the world by no longer posting?

All these questions and more will be answered on the next episode of "DSM Ruining Threads"

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 4 Cleric example is not relevant because nobody has argued for 4 clerics. It goes against my DPS breakpoint argument

2 enchanters hits your breakpoint with good pets. If safety stacks infinitely and DPS beyond your breakpoint doesn't matter then the best group in everquest is 2 enchanters 4 clerics. Shaman still doesn't make the cut.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2 enchanters hits your breakpoint with good pets. If safety stacks infinitely and DPS beyond your breakpoint doesn't matter then the best group in everquest is 2 enchanters 4 clerics. Shaman still doesn't make the cut.

Incorrect. A Shaman offers more utility and DPS than a cleric. The reason why you bring a single cleric is for resurrection and CHing the pets since they have a lot of HP. Multiple Clerics wouldn't offer much. You don't need to CH chain in a four man group. Having a Cleric and a Shaman gives you a much broader range of spells.

Enchanter/Enchanter/Shaman/Cleric is a very strong group when looking at a four man composition. You get all the DPS you need, and a lot of utility and camp options too.

But as I said before, I agree with OP. Enchanter/Mage/Shaman/Necromancer is probably the best four man comp. You get all the utility you need, including CoTH from the Mage, and you hit the DPS breakpoints necessary for any content a four man group could do. It's easy enough to level a pocket cleric to 49 if your group wants the superior ressurection and CHing pets.

[PlsNoBan]

Cleric provides better healing outside of CH that does not snare/attack speed slow the target. You are high as giraffe pussy.

[Troxx]

Lol I take how many days off this forum and this is still going on?

Lol plsnoban love your new signature

And toxigen your avatar inspired me to watch No Country For Old Men this weekend