Enchanter OP impact poll

[DMN]

He mostly played/wrote during the early Classic period. you can see in one of his notes where he mentions that DoTs no longer count as neutral damage sources. Which means he must have been playing pretty early after the game was released as that was changed really early on.

He also goes out of his way to mention velious/luclin "updates" yet never does for kunark, which again makes me think he primarily wrote that from vanilla through kunark, hence never mentions kunark.

The problem with charm and how much cha affects it is, is that the randomness of the spell is so great that whatever cha is possibly doing i's very hard to tell and to properly tested youd need a massive sample size due to that varience. A week or two ago on green at level 60, I was charming a level 36-36 mob with no special reists to magic and it broke 6 times in row within the first 2-3 ticks. other times I get back to back max duration charms. With variance like that it would take thousands upon thousands of hours of charm testing with the same mob to come to any decent conclusion.

[Baler]

Does no one else remember the internet on classic EQ back in the day?
Random D/Cing was common.

On p99 the internet is massively more stable, Charming loses a lot of risk when you are in full control on a stable connection.
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One more thing no one wants to talk about or doesnt know about. P99 does have random bad RNG to introduce difficulty. Like those times your charm breaks back to back to back compared to other times it just doesn't break.
The devs added this a long, long time ago to counter act the stability of eqemu code and modern internet.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does no one else remember the internet on classic EQ back in the day?
Random D/Cing was common.

On p99 the internet is massively more stable, Charming loses a lot of risk when you are in full control on a stable connection.

My dial up would drop if it was connected for 2 hours.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With variance like that it would take thousands upon thousands of hours of charm testing with the same mob to come to any decent conclusion.

Loraen demonstrated this relationship with less that 50 iterations in 2012
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=92423

So you're off by roughly 2 orders of magnitude.

[Baler]

a lot has changed in p99's spaghetti code since 2012.

[this user was banned]

I’m probably beating a dead horse here, but it needs to be repeated. Many people were on AOL 56k modem dialup back then. Not only that, not everyone had a dedicated phone line for just the modem which means one incoming phone call or a family member picking up the phone not realizing you were online means you get disconnected. Not only that, the connection wasn’t always reliable to begin with.

You’d then notice it about a minute after the fact and then spend a another 2-3 minutes dialing back in and another minute or two logging in and then loading the game. This is all assuming the person calling doesn’t keep calling trying to get through or your family member needed to use the phone. Not everyone had their own personal cell phone back then, most had a single home line and you’d have to fight over it.

With this much risk and how much time it took to regain the lost XP if there wasn’t a high level cleric available, this is going to influence your gameplay decisions. I believe there was an AI back then that took over you character and taught for you when you went LD, and for some classes with pets, going LD isn’t too serious of an issue as your pet can hopefully hold long enough before you leave the game. Otherwise you better damn well have everything rooted and pray it lasts.

This is nothing like a little blip in your connectivity over your fiber optic connection we have today. This literally means you go LD, charm breaks, and you are probably dead.

I grew up with this, I was seriously lucky to get an uninterrupted play session. Maybe other people lived different experiences than myself, but this was what it was like for me playing back then. I played a necro and often soloed, so it wasn’t always big deal, and I even soloed a lot in lower guk. I’d always have gate, FD, and sometimes harmshield ready to cast if I logged back in after a disconnect, and got stomped by respawns.

I never charmed on my necro, I was aware the spells existed, but I never used them; for me it was always pet and dots or undead nukes and taps. None of the guides and forums I read ever suggested trying charming, and I’d wouldn’t for a second dare consider it under the conditions I played in. I usually hunted stuff that was white or yellow, and was tough enough trying to solo a single one of those, I wouldn’t dare consider two at a time. I didn’t have the best gear too, and it was tough trying to figure out what you should get, there was no item linking back then and we didn’t have the robust p99 wiki.

I never tried enchanter back then, but I have played one here and I’d never try what I do now under the conditions I played in back then. When I did group, the few times I remember charm, it was from bards just doing a little temporary CC on big/bad pulls. The enchanters mostly just mezzed and buffed, I didn’t experience any perma-charmed pets with haste and pet toys like we see today. Why weren’t people doing it? I can’t speak for everyone, but from my own experiences, I’d say it wasn’t worth the risk and the stress, grouped or not. Most people back then just wanted to chill, chat, and gain some exp while they do it.

EQ back then was basically an immersive chat room that you happened to gain some exp and loot in. The people I played with back then were mostly laid back, and not the power gaming grinders we often see today (myself included.) Don’t forget, many people built real life friendships, relationships, and even got married in game just like they did in AOL chat rooms. There were actual conversations in groups, and not always about the game. Today, most groups I’ve been in were so intensely focused on maximizing XP, we rarely got to know each other. Back then people would ask where you were from and talk about their lives.

If people back then had the same power gaming mindset and reliable internet connections, I believe they’d have a very similar experience to we have today. If there’s going to be ANY compromise on charm, in my opinion, it’s going to be on empirical grounds with hard evidence, which is sorely lacking; good luck finding posts about people going hardcore testing charm durations with time stamped game logs. We were too enchanted with this new and innovative virtual world to bother.

[Baler]

^this

The Real endgame is socialization.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a lot has changed in p99's spaghetti code since 2012.

Here's a thread from 2019 on the subject https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=339224

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loraen demonstrated this relationship with less that 50 iterations in 2012
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=92423

So you're off by roughly 2 orders of magnitude.

He wasn't even using th same mob and the cha was beyond the soft cap. All that data is garbage and shows you nothing useful whatsoever.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He wasn't even using th same mob and the cha was beyond the soft cap. All that data is garbage and shows you nothing useful whatsoever.

The lack of rigor is further proof that any cursory attempt to measure the effect of CHA on charm duration suggests a linear relationship. Here's another thread from 2012 https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...9&postcount=52

There's been many people who have individually come to the same conclusion with minimal data sets.

Meanwhile the guide, who's veracity you've otherwise defended, claims no discernible relationship between CHA and charm duration.