******Official politics thread ******

[America]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why? Because we developed and invented some technology, created capital? Couldn't any asshole country have done the same?

200 years from now (in Chinese)

"I believe China has been a force for good, even though we some big problems."

the fact of the world hegemon currently not being Chinese is a pretty great legacy in itself.

the massive explosion of capital & resource exploitation that the US represents catapulted us through the 19th-20th centuries in terms of technology. the cleveland orchestra is on par with Berlin Phil. that's how important American industry was. that's how big its biceps were. fucking Cleveland, dude.

and blew up the world economy under a very favorable social organization and culture. you owe it 20 years of life expectancy. and you owe it for developing the medicine & social setting to turn me pretty. salute the flag when you kiss me dear. That "other asshole country" who blew up the 20th century could have been Imperial Japan, Germany, or China -- all powers who rejected cultural inheritance from the Greeks. Insect cultures. Homophobes! No; the US is wonderful. and the scary thing is that it is, actually, worth some number of lives and some amount of warfare to maintain its position.

If a hegemon is inevitable it must inherit culturally from good. Not from mfkn confucius or tao te chong. "get fat and kill people if the wind blows you that way, feeling no feelings". wow great philosophy.

[Irulan]

I'd be ok with a republican president but this white trash needs to get dunked on hard.

Nothing personal m8s.

[JurisDictum]

Fine, China is more evil. My point wasn't that China was good per se. But that we have this strange tendency to associate power with what is "good."

That's the whole damn point of the Republic. Justice is not the will of the stronger. Justice is a just society. We used to pretend/think the elite were on some level, trying to seek out a just society. We know better now, now we just talk about power in political theory.

But a more just society is the only legitimate political goal there really is. We are only better then China insomuch as we are more just. That goals are more noble.

I guess I'm elitist in the sense that I think there is a natural order. Where the more capable lead and look out for the less capable. But the natural order is currently perverted by an artificial one of inherited wealth and privilege.

Those that rose with the boomer generation know its true. Most the time, they know their kids aren't as good as them (generalization, always generalizations). But they resist allowing their mediocre kids to backslide in social position...where they would probably be more comfortable if it was allowed.

You probably all seen these well-off pampered kids with pedigree in way over their head. Not a pretty sight. Its destructive them and the rest of us.

[JurisDictum]

What the hell are we trying to accomplish in the world exactly ATM? Can anyone answer this?

It seems to me that despite any high minded ideals we come up with. We mostly serve to funnel the earth's resources (including human creative and productive power) into a handful of well-connected corporate owners and their families.

It only makes sense in a context of eventually redistributing these vast pools. Assuming they don't waste it on bullshit rushed space projects and dumb island building projects.

"We have to spend money to party like this, because otherwise, the government will take it all" -- the son of some rich Jew I know indirectly. He has like 5 Ferraris, doesn't work, and bitches about taxes.

[America]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We know better now, now we just talk about power in political theory.

"Political theory" is ideology, not hard science. Power relationships are a systematic component of politics but there are, actually, culture and individual character playing their roles in things -- among other forces. If you are just talking about power you are being an ideologue. Black and white thinking.

As for what we're trying to accomplish: we are clinging to power while we devise an information-control matrix that can bend every culture into the world order which has us at its head. It may well work and be something of a political singularity; the top of the info matrix could be a permanent crown on the permanent head of human civilization. The next 30 years will be very important.

[rebeccablack]

do u guys think that in a post-trump world the gop will pivot back to focusing on fiscal responsibility / free trade / forward thinking pragmatism or are we stuck in this culture war nightmare reality forever?

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by rebeccablack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

do u guys think that in a post-trump world the gop will pivot back to focusing on fiscal responsibility / free trade / forward thinking pragmatism or are we stuck in this culture war nightmare reality forever?

deficit hawks are pretty quiet under Trump. shame about that tax cut kneecapping revenue, guess we gotta cut the budget sorry not sorry

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by rebeccablack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

do u guys think that in a post-trump world the gop will pivot back to focusing on fiscal responsibility / free trade / forward thinking pragmatism or are we stuck in this culture war nightmare reality forever?

We been in the culture war since Nixon (kicked into high gear under Reagan). We can't get out of it because we keep bringing in immigrants + fanning the flames of ethnic/cultural resentment as replacement for policy that will improve most people's lives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTZ-CpINiqg

Trump is just the newest turn.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by America [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Political theory" is ideology, not hard science. Power relationships are a systematic component of politics but there are, actually, culture and individual character playing their roles in things -- among other forces. If you are just talking about power you are being an ideologue. Black and white thinking.

As for what we're trying to accomplish: we are clinging to power while we devise an information-control matrix that can bend every culture into the world order which has us at its head. It may well work and be something of a political singularity; the top of the info matrix could be a permanent crown on the permanent head of human civilization. The next 30 years will be very important.

Political theory is attempt to organize and make sense people's muddle-assed thinking about ideology. It is not an ideology in and of itself. As far as the academic subject of Political Theory goes (which mostly got started in its modern form under Niccolò Machiavelli).

Plato did have an ideology, one of Meritocracy. It's one of the foundational ideas of Western ideology. In that sense maybe it is black and white. Meritocracy is an ideology that philosopher kings would do the best on top, then lower down rungs everyone has their place. Including slaves at the bottom who are better governed by other rather than themselves.

IDK where the grey is though. You either believe society should be organized according to merit or not.

The biggest threat to US hegemony is itself. It's co-option by corporations and its subservience to undisciplined private interest with no vision beyond enriching themselves. Oligarchy in short (which Aristotle identified as an unstable system).

It creates unprofitable military adventurism, predatory capitalism, kleptocracy, and undermines popular support for our country and global support for its position as a leader.

Google is giving away the mechanisms you are talking to China ATM...why? Because the US Government serves Google more than Google serves the US Government. And that is a problem.

Trump talks a good game on some of this "America First" rhetoric. But he has more or less kept the status quo from what I can tell -- accelerating subservience to limited private interest that have no actual loyalty to this country, its ideals, or anything except "GIVE ME MORE."

Bernie might at least help more people reach more of their potential and actually start contributing to the country. But he might just as much hobble things dated ideas and programs. We'll have to see.

I'm not a huge fan socialism becoming the party of multiculturalism. Multiculturalism shouldn't be a party. I think its a failure as far as policy goes, other might disagree -- that's fine, just not along high stakes winner take all party lines.

The multicultural vote needs to be split, were as the economic populist and nationalist vote needs to be concentrated in one party so it can take over for at least awhile. We have the opposite right now and its not good.

[Wonkie]

interesting post structure. did you mean to open with "muddle ass ideology" and close with a toothless critique of "multiculturalism"?