Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by slard271 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just sayin' but this is pretty darn subjective, imo. There are pretty hardcore tradeoffs between CE and torp than just mana efficiency. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise, but that's par for the course at this point.

He has yet to acknowledge the disadvantages of torpor (or anything shaman related really) so yeah. Not surprising. I kinda wish I loved anything in life as much as DSM loves everquest shamans.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by slard271 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just sayin' but this is pretty darn subjective, imo. There are pretty hardcore tradeoffs between CE and torp than just mana efficiency. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise, but that's par for the course at this point.

It's not subjective at all to look at how much HP you get per mana on a healing spell. That is quite objective in fact.

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He has yet to acknowledge the disadvantages of torpor (or anything shaman related really) so yeah. Not surprising. I kinda wish I loved anything in life as much as DSM loves everquest shamans.

I didn't deny the disadvantages at all. Torpor is 6-7.5 HP per mana, which is better than CE and honestly about even with CH when in a party with non-raid geared players. You are generally not healing more than 3000 HP on a player that isn't a raid geared warrior, which is 7.5 HP per mana. Torpor is a very efficient spell, especially when combined with Cannibalize.

The groups I have been in have yet to run into a DPS issue when they are being Torpored. You just have to be a bit strategic about when you do it. That is the beauty of slowing the mobs. You aren't taking damage that fast, which means you also don't have to be healed as fast.

It really sounds like you guys haven't been grouped with a Torpor Shaman that often.

[Karanis]

HUH.jpg

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I made the druid argument earlier in this thread somewhere. Don't care to dig for it. Druid is a WAY better option than shaman if animals are available to charm. It's not even a contest in a zone like Chardok. Likely better even without charm. In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that "safety" is needed beyond 2 encs and a cleric. Druid direct healing is as good/better? Torpor isn't an emergency heal for when shit hits the fan. Druid also has the option of evac. Their utility has less overlap with the existing group and their buffs are better for casters than shaman buffs.

I’ll be honest with you. Following DSM logic the druid is actually the better choice over shaman for anything that isn’t WW Dragons (which we all know a shaman can solo) or Ixblatthefckx which is not what this game is built around. Following DSM logic there is no argument. Druids heal as good or better in emergencies, have plenty of Cc, can nuke better than shamans, POTG is sexy sauce, free unlimited group regen, DS, succor, ports …

Following DSM logic shamans are a solid 5th place out of 6 for who you want to fill that 4th slot.


Thankfully I am not DSM. DPS is not irrelevant. Shamans remain 4th of 6.

But …. Let us cackle while we watch DSM talk himself out of this corner.

General consensus = mage necro or a 3rd ench
DSM logic = shaman is even worse and is replaced by a damn druid

Best 4 man all caster setup doesn’t include a shaman.

So sorry.

[Troxx]

8 pages until …

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[DeathsSilkyMist]

When you can't disprove facts and logic, you go back to the trolling. It's so easy to tell when you have been beat.

[slard271]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not subjective at all to look at how much HP you get per mana on a healing spell. That is quite objective in fact.

You're right. Hence the part of my sentence that read: "...than just mana efficiency." It definitely is objective, so is all the rest of the baggage that comes along with torp, cast time, groupage (yes, I realize not an issue in this fantasy scenario), slow, snare. Not to mention the fact that the class that can cast CE can also cast a COMPLETE FUCKING HEAL. But we don't likeses that so we sweep it under the rug and doctor the scenario up with pocket toons, root rotting everything in a three mile radius; and don't get me started on poor Ixiblat Fer. Somehow, as the equivalent of p99 Godwin's law, we will personally hold Detoxx responsible for Shaman not being the sole class responsible for all group DPS henceforth.

What I sincerely (for super realsy honestly) find mind boggling in this thread is literally everyone is saying Shaman is awesome and OP and comes in as maybe #3 or 4 in this fantasy land group but that's not good enough because delete-all-classes-except-shaman. Your boner for shaman is astounding. And again, I have no skin in the game other than somehow getting wrapped up in this retardedness because I guess boredom. Despite your wikipedia links to logical fallacies, it can, in fact, be the case that, well... I dunno... you're just wrong no matter what The Cherrypicked Data with solo'ing versus group composition tells you, Dr. DSM. All that said, <3 and see you at the next raid, brotha.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by slard271 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're right. Hence the part of my sentence that read: "...than just mana efficiency." It definitely is objective, so is all the rest of the baggage that comes along with torp, cast time, groupage (yes, I realize not an issue in this fantasy scenario), slow, snare. Not to mention the fact that the class that can cast CE can also cast a COMPLETE FUCKING HEAL. But we don't likeses that so we sweep it under the rug and doctor the scenario up with pocket toons, root rotting everything in a three mile radius; and don't get me started on poor Ixiblat Fer. Somehow, as the equivalent of p99 Godwin's law, we will personally hold Detoxx responsible for Shaman not being the sole class responsible for all group DPS henceforth.

What I sincerely (for super realsy honestly) find mind boggling in this thread is literally everyone is saying Shaman is awesome and OP and comes in as maybe #3 or 4 in this fantasy land group but that's not good enough because delete-all-classes-except-shaman. Your boner for shaman is astounding. And again, I have no skin in the game other than somehow getting wrapped up in this retardedness because I guess boredom. Despite your wikipedia links to logical fallacies, it can, in fact, be the case that, well... I dunno... you're just wrong no matter what The Cherrypicked Data with solo'ing versus group composition tells you, Dr. DSM. All that said, <3 and see you at the next raid, brotha.

I never made the argument that other classes are bad or should be deleted. That is just another strawman lol. You are simply making stuff up because you think you can "win" against me.

You can win. Prove your points with facts and logic, not silliness.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’ll be honest with you. Following DSM logic the druid is actually the better choice over shaman for anything that isn’t WW Dragons (which we all know a shaman can solo) or Ixblatthefckx which is not what this game is built around. Following DSM logic there is no argument. Druids heal as good or better in emergencies, have plenty of Cc, can nuke better than shamans, POTG is sexy sauce, free unlimited group regen, DS, succor, ports …

Following DSM logic shamans are a solid 5th place out of 6 for who you want to fill that 4th slot.


Thankfully I am not DSM. DPS is not irrelevant. Shamans remain 4th of 6.

But …. Let us cackle while we watch DSM talk himself out of this corner.

General consensus = mage necro or a 3rd ench
DSM logic = shaman is even worse and is replaced by a damn druid

Best 4 man all caster setup doesn’t include a shaman.

So sorry.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

silliness

I pointed out that you were simply calling others and/or others' posts "silly" (rather than backing up your points/position/claim/"argument"[s] with relevant, objectively factual data) when I joined this discussion on Page 74, and you are still - seemingly, apparently - calling others and/or others' posts "silly" on page 292.

For the sake of civil discussion, what definition of "silly"/ "silliness" are you using? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]