Suicide Kings Raid Proposal

[Akame]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please keep flames like that out of this thread. This is a matter that is being presented here as a level of transparency and as a forum of discussion for future discussion and approval (or not) at the next guild meeting.

No one has responded to my concern about non premeditated pickup raids yet. I'm waiting for the discussion.

[Skope]

For those of you calling it a rotation system, please take a good look at the current rules and then stop and think a minute. It is far FAR from a rotation system, and in fact favors activity and a more FFA style than the rules we have now.

With the camping that's going on, guilds (two of them, really) are picking targets as if they were raiding on a rotation system, with the other guild generally picking another uncamped target. With the suicide kings system guilds won't have an incentive to camp and will be forced track and to mobilize immediately after a spawn (something that really hasn't been happening the past 2-3 weeks whatsoever). This is actually more in line with an FFA system that favors guilds that are active, mobilize well -- and if the timers are figured out -- guilds that are well organized.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by sidgb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For the most part this looks good....except.

The raid types are too restrictive. Nothing should preclude a guild sponsoring a raid and filling out its ranks as they see fit. A raid half guild and half pug is just as legitimate as any other claim under these guidelines.

The first is a guild raid group. A guild group/s raid must consist of a 2/3 majority of its members belonging to their affiliated guild.

The third is a premeditated pickup group hereafter referred to as a PUG raid group. A pug raid group cannot consist of more than ten members from the same guild, or one third of the raid force, whichever is less.

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Guild raid filling out 1/3 of it's ranks = on permanent SK list as a guild, or can apply to become one when necessary.

PuG with 1/3 of it's memebers as a single guild entity = possibly maintained on SK list, or at least with premeditation appears on the list at the appropriate time.

There is a small gap in there but that's what the coalition type is for. If a guild is struggling to maintain 50% of a raid force as it's composition it probably shouldn't be raiding as a guild. If that's the case just recruit a few more members to put themselves under the 1/3 or 10 cap

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Akame [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one has responded to my concern about non premeditated pickup raids yet. I'm waiting for the discussion.

There are no targets that are going to live long enough for on-the-spot pickup raids to happen, at the moment.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by sidgb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For the most part this looks good....except.

The raid types are too restrictive. Nothing should preclude a guild sponsoring a raid and filling out its ranks as they see fit. A raid half guild and half pug is just as legitimate as any other claim under these guidelines.

The raid group would still be responsible for it being their suicide, they can't get a second entry into the list.

The rules as written are in place mainly to stop any smurfing by "splinter" groups, and to prevent guilds from giving away their suicide.

I admit the weakest link in Suicide Kings is the problem of how to deal with raid groups that are not formed from a majority of one guild -- leaving it open enough for non guild raids while avoiding massive bloat on the Suicide List.

[Akame]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are no targets that are going to live long enough for on-the-spot pickup raids to happen, at the moment.

So this system is only valid until when? Kunark?

[Kainzo]

The suicide loot system was flawed, so is this.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Akame [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So this system is only valid until when? Kunark?

After Kunark opens up, I suspect that several of the targets would be eligible to be reclassified as FFA. Those targets required for epics might still have to be on the list.

[Akame]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The raid group would still be responsible for it being their suicide, they can't get a second entry into the list.

The rules as written are in place mainly to stop any smurfing by "splinter" groups, and to prevent guilds from giving away their suicide.

I admit the weakest link in Suicide Kings is the problem of how to deal with raid groups that are not formed from a majority of one guild -- leaving it open enough for non guild raids while avoiding massive bloat on the Suicide List.

What is going to keep members of DA from disbanding and calling themselves a Pug? Also in an opposite argument, how is this fair to guilds with twice the population as other guilds who are only allowed a chance at loot as often as guilds half their size? Are they expected to just "deal with it" when they can mobilize double raids at the moment?

(If you want me to take this seriously, expect me to pick apart every hole you've got in this).

[Akame]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After Kunark opens up, I suspect that several of the targets would be eligible to be reclassified as FFA. Those targets required for epics might still have to be on the list.

No, you are not going to be able to list epic mobs. Even non raiding guilds will want a chance at epic mobs when they won't be normally raiding themselves and therefore will not want to be on a full target list. Next thing you'd know you'd have individual lists by raid boss and it'd be care bears and rainbows for everyone. At best you can hope for is to use a system like this until Kunark/Epics come out.