enchanter cha

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by Yumyums Inmahtumtums [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I'm blurring I just lull and chain mezz anyways. No sense bringing up a spell with a 5 sec cool down when you can just mezz till your hearts content.

Level 4 mez greatest spell ever.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Level 4 mez greatest spell ever.

It's all I ever use unless I need to rapture.

[Ordrek]

Why not Erudite with 25 CHA and 5 AGI (to avoid the AC penalty)?

I would think the +5 MR, net +10 INT (since HE will likely put 5 in INT where the Erudite needs AGI), 5 STR, and 5 STA is worth more than 10 CHA. Sure the HE has Infravision, but Illusions/gear can fill that gap.

That +5 MR looks especially tempting on Red.

Thoughts?

[-Catherin-]

INT is easy to get and not a hugely useful stat for an enchanter.

High elves already have a naturally high AGI so you dont need to waste skill points on a nearly useless stat. Can put those last 5 points into STA or INT

Having the highest starting CHA possible is important for previous things already mentioned.

5MR does not make up for the CHA loss. And it is a very situationally useful stat easily overcome by resist gear when its actually needed

this is a blue perspective. im not going to comment on red as things are different and i dont play red.

[Raev]

Erudite and High Elf are basically a tossup IMO for the best races, but your character won't be defined by some trivial stat allocation. Loraen has 75 base charisma! Enchanter is above all a skill class.

Enchanters in PVP are very, very strong. You chain 4-slot dispel, then tash/root and serve up kills on a platter for your friends. Because of this, you will always be targeted first in mass PVP, so expect a 5-100 KDR. They can be strong in 1:1 PVP under the right circumstances though.

[Ordrek]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

INT is easy to get and not a hugely useful stat for an enchanter.

High elves already have a naturally high AGI so you dont need to waste skill points on a nearly useless stat. Can put those last 5 points into STA or INT

Having the highest starting CHA possible is important for previous things already mentioned.

5MR does not make up for the CHA loss. And it is a very situationally useful stat easily overcome by resist gear when its actually needed

this is a blue perspective. im not going to comment on red as things are different and i dont play red.

I realize we are mulling the finer points of something that barely matters, but since we are having this discussion and future enchanters may read this, it is worth taking the discussion a few steps further. Let's be honest, we're only arguing this because we, like most EQ players, have a spot of OCD perfectionism in us and want our toons to be "perfect" in our mental construct of them even if the difference between perfection and non-perfection is close to nil. That said, let's get to it!

Also, I will add my spin for Red, since that is where I play. I get it that Red concerns aren't Blue concerns, but Red has all the concerns of Blue and then some, so the Blue concerns will be addressed as well.

Any INT will get you to 200+ with raid gear. I think we all agree on this. The only real value of extra INT is that starting with more means you can better afford to use a non-raid piece in place of a raid piece because of some utility function it has. On blue, this can occasionally be useful but it is a more salient point on Red, where utility can be a big deal. Utility may take the form of a clicky, extra resist gear, or whatever you feel the situation calls for other than raw stats. It is safe to say that if both ERU and HIE dump 25 into CHA at creation, the ERU has at least 10 more INT. We know the exact value of 10 INT in this game. It isn't much when it comes down to raid gear, but it isn't nothing given the replacement potential already discussed.

The value of CHA is not quantified anywhere that I have found with specificity, so it is impossible to make claims about its relative value to other more quantifiable stats. All we know is "more is better up to 255." With both ERU and HIE dumping 25 into starting CHA, HIE has 10 more but we don't really know the value of 10 CHA other than, like INT, it gives us more space to replace items with non +CHA items.

The ERU +5 MR is similar to the other stats in that it allows replacement value for other stats, or to more easily stack it very high. This is far more valuable on Red where every last drop of MR can be helpful. Yes, ERU trade that MR for -5 DR, but most would agree this is a fairly inconsequential resist. On Red, it is arguably useful to have a LOWER DR because it means your friendly Necro/SK/priest of Bert can cast Disease Cloud on you without a resist, making you immune(ish) to being mezzed (because Rapture is still a thing).

Other stats are more of a mixed bag of "who cares?", but we might as well be complete. Erudites will probably want to dump their remaining 5 points into AGI so they can avoid the AC penalty that comes with sub 75 AGI. While this penalty is likely not in play while geared, you aren't always in gear and might be in gear that doesn't provide 5 AGI. Since HIE start with AGI above 75 (85 to be exact), they can do what they like with that remaining 5 stat points. Many HIE will put it into INT, making the difference between a ERU and HIE only 10 INT rather than 15. The HIE +10 AGI means they have +4 AC over an ERU. Woohoo.

That leaves a few other differences that barely matter, but they aren't nothing. Erudites have +5 STR and STA over HIE. The STA means ERU have a "whopping" +12hp over HIE at level 60. Woohoo. The STR obviously means the ERU can carry 5 more stone of weight. The weight capacity is a bigger deal on Red where reducing an enemy's STR in order to effectively snare them by putting them over weight capacity is a danger. It is also a nice convenience to carry a bit more of something when farming/leveling.

ERU and HIE have the same DEX (70), but who cares?

The final difference really is nothing: HIE have more WIS than ERU? How much more? I don't care, and neither should you.

Bottom line differences and their 1 to 5 scale of relative importance (IMO):

ERU: +5 MR (RATING: 3 for Blue, 4 for Red), +10 INT (probably. RATING: 3), +5 STR (RATING: 2), +5 STA (RATING: 1)
HIE: Infravision (RATING: 3), +10 CHA (RATING: 4), +10 AGI (RATING: 1)

You'll notice there are no 5s. That's because none of those things matter that much compared to things like Regen. In fact, if we're calling things like Regen a 5, none of these differences would rate above a 2. What does this mean for you? Pick the one with the model you can live with. If you are playing Red, ERU has a slight mechanical advantage. If you're playing Blue, HIE has an even slight-er mechanical advantage over ERU.

I personally really dislike the HIE male model/faces and don't like to cross dress sexes, which makes ERU the only choice.

[Man0warr]

Dark Elf has Hide, which is a great racial for charm soloing Enchanters. Not as good as a Goblin Gazughi ring, but you can get by with it (I did for 50+ levels until buying a ring).

[Ordrek]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dark Elf has Hide, which is a great racial for charm soloing Enchanters. Not as good as a Goblin Gazughi ring, but you can get by with it (I did for 50+ levels until buying a ring).

DE is worth looking at for sure, but I think your own post makes the best case against using Hide as a charm break: Even though you have hide, you still wanted a goblin ring anyway. I figured that out myself once when I played a DE enchanter on live. It led me away from rolling DE this time and to just save my money for a ring asap.

[Man0warr]

I only got the ring for high leverage situations where I needed to break charm 100%. For leveling up, it wasn't an issue.

[Luminious]

Originally Posted by Yumyums Inmahtumtums [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cha doesn't affect mezzes just rng on charm and resist rate on lulls.

If I'm blurring I just lull and chain mezz anyways. No sense bringing up a spell with a 5 sec cool down when you can just mezz till your hearts content.

Incorrect. Charisma does effect mez. Small effect but its there. Also not every mob in game can be mezzed.