FTE Shouts: Rethinking Their Mechanics and Issue

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Xasten's idea only makes the rules lawyering more complicated and will just end up breeding more ridiculous zerg strategies to win the rules lawyering game.

Actually, such a scheme demonstrably reduces rules lawyering in the same manner as simple FTE shouts, and it has the added bonus stopping stall tactics.

[Metallikus]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, such a scheme demonstrably reduces rules lawyering in the same manner as simple FTE shouts, and it has the added bonus stopping stall tactics.

false, all your suggestion demonstrates is how retarded FTE is in the first place and how much rule lawyering is involved that you propose to code in a bunch of un-needed non -classic game mechanics.

Show some respect for the rest of the server, and try to come up with a solution that isn't micromanaging the douchebag raid scene between the two top zerg guilds.

[kotton05]

who ever gets fte, it shouts their name, end of story. no fancy rules or stuff. otherwise dont do it, just makes my head spin reading what xasten is trying to make points about.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, such a scheme demonstrably reduces rules lawyering in the same manner as simple FTE shouts, and it has the added bonus stopping stall tactics.

But it also has the unintended side-effect of providing legitimate kills to guilds that do not put all the effort in (legitimate engage before the mob resets). This is the very problem you are attempting to solve with FTC notifications, so you've created additional code that doesn't solve the problem.

I do not have a better suggestion, but this suggestion does not meet its intended goal, so I cannot support it.

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Show some respect for the rest of the server, and try to come up with a solution that isn't micromanaging the douchebag raid scene between the two top zerg guilds.

This is the core of the issue, albeit stated in a rude manner. Additional game mechanics/server rules to lawyer is not the issue. Inter-guild communication (or lack there-of) is the problem with our raid scene. "Damn it all for the pixels" is not the chant we should be shouting as we run into battle.

Also, by forcing FTC as a "higher right to loot" than FTE, you've now made it more difficult for a raid to disengage because instead of possibly only having 1-2 persons engaged erroneously, everyone is running at the mob attempting to get to "first 4" on FTC. Disengaging/feinting engage will become a less viable raid tactic.

[Metallikus]

why can't you guys respect a guild's raid force present for 10 goddamn min? bring the server into the civilized era and away from the douchebag fte era.

[kotton05]

it's also not hard to /assist the target and see who its targeting. only real time fte shouts were needed was when poopsocking happened, which after last patch seems to be a thing of the past.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by windo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why not just require 15 people (a raid force) on a target's aggro list for FTE and FTE shout?

I considered that. The exact # required to trigger the shout can be tweaked. The point is to force groups to commit. Some mobs like VS and Fay can be done with under 15.

It also occurred to me that this is a far more practical way to achieve the situation the GMs wanted some months back when they desired for you to kill draco on his spawn and not pull him. While this would allow mobs to still be pulled, it is not without risk.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First to Engage shouts (when implemented) will just remove the GM/CSR from the "FTE argument". Its automating a process that already exists.

As for the most recent example, the shout would have had the added benefit that TMO would have known, without a doubt, that FE had FTE and could have disengaged.

I agree that an FTE shout solves *most* of the issues (i.e. disengaging a raid knowing the opposing force got FTE and letting them sink or swim), however Xasten's solution addresses stall tactics like someone grabbing FTE, confirmed via FTE shout, but then DA tanking for 18 seconds. Or a Donals BP cleric and a warrior stalling for 3-5 minutes on VS until the rest of the raid force can get there/logged in (I suppose a group of 4-5 people can still stall, but this at least ups the ante on the number of people you have to instantly log in to claim VS.)

Either system of automated acknowledgement of rights to the mob is better than what we have now. The strategy/game theory is different when you can't tell who has FTE... Guild A has 15 ppl on Trak, Guild B has 30 ppl on Trak... Guild B has no choice but to engage ASAP, which favors Guild A on a mob they would most likely fail on, because Guild B can't take the chance that Guild A can pull it off with 15.

But if Guild B knew they could disengage and camp aggro after a FTE shout awarded the mob to Guild A, there is a decent chance Guild A will wipe and Guild B will get their shot. So raid encounters become a little bit more about mobilization, even if mobilization here just means "who can log in the fastest at the spawn".

[falkun]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But if Guild B knew they could disengage and camp aggro after a FTE shout awarded the mob to Guild A, there is a decent chance Guild A will wipe and Guild B will get their shot. So raid encounters become a little bit more about mobilization, even if mobilization here just means "who can log in the fastest at the spawn".

This is granted via the incoming FTE shouts, you won't need FTC shouts for this functionality. I completely agree that Guild_B, once committed, pretty much has to stick on the raid mob currently, pre-FTE shout implementation. I anticipate many more disengages (and likely wipes) following the FTE shout implementation. FTC shouts bring in a bunch of new variables and rules to lawyer and hash out. For instance, guilds may disagree how many bodies represents an engaged force or how long it takes to pull a mob. FTE shouts, an extension/automation of the already existing FTE metric, minimizes additional creation of game mechanics/server rules to govern the player-base.