Server/Classic Observations

[Dersk]

Originally Posted by theguyy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gotta love people justifying their own overwhelming greed.

Stop insisting people give you something just because you can equip it, then.

[azeth]

I currently play a magician, my wife an enc, and I guarantee I will be "greeding" on items that if sold would exponentially change my gear set.

As others have said, what does "can equip" have to do with "need before greed" ?

NBG (to me) is defined as - A player designed group mechanic to be used as a loot distribution tool. Conceptually when an item drops, players will identify whether or not they "need" it. In an NBG environment, whomever claims "need" will only be contested in a /random by whomever else claimed "need".

The issue is everyone has a different definition of need. Just because a melee class can immediately equip and utilize a drop, do they necessarily need the item more than a class who cannot? Obviously the class who cannot equip the item can sell it, therefore benefiting from the drop. The benefit from the sale is absolutely incomparable to the supposed "necessity" the class who could equip the item claimed.

If an FBSS drops and we agree it is worth 9,000pp. The 21%(right?) haste provided to whomever equips cannot be quantified in terms of usefulness to the purchase made from selling the item retail. With 9000pp I could easily deck myself out in master jewelcraft gear increasing mana pool/spell effectiveness, finish up buying costly spells... I don't need to go on.

Taken from Miriam Webster -

NEED - 1. A condition or situation in which something is required or wanted

The definition of need is inherently contradictory. I believe we all agree the definition we consider when describing "NBG" is when something is required, not just wanted.

[Breuce]

My favorite NBG abuse was the ol' "spare downgrade" trick. Sure you're a level 55 monk that's using a fighting baton in your primary... sure you are, but I'm still rolling for that jade mace. I actually remember seeing this happen regularly back in the day.

I actually used to keep some terrible gear around to mess with people like that.

"Sweet, NBG! I need that IFS?" "Weren't you swinging a T-Staff earlier?" "Naw, been using this same weapon for a long time." Soandso inspects you, sees worn great staff, lulz ensue.

Of course, karma guaranteed that I would never once win the roll after I pulled that prank. Proof that God has no sense of humor.

I mainly liked greed groups because I tend to enjoy having at least one person who can cast a spell in my groups. Call me crazy.

[Tronjer]

Not going into argument here, but the attitude some posts show is the reason, certain classes got excluded from grouping in high-level dungeons like Sebilis, back on live. As a melee I wouldn't roll on mana items, even it might be worth 10k and I expect the same vice versa. It's frustrating if anything drops, one or two in group are desperately camping for weeks and someone wins who can't use and will sell it right away. If a particular camp doesn't have loot for your class, noone forces you to join. Simple as that.

[mmiles8]

Just like this site defines what a camp is; I think they should also define that ALL groups are greed-rolling unless the group members involved vote otherwise. In the case of ties, greed-rolling wins out.

Greetings, Arclanz. Have you seen the Hobbes' Leviathan I just got in?

[Dantes]

Most groups I have been in have honored need before greed. I'm always an advocate for it, and will either voluntarily sit out of rolls on items I can't use - or roll on them and give them away to another group member if I win (if there's no other option because everyone wants to greed roll).

I don't really think need before greed stops at a certain plat value. That's kind of stupid. From the perspective of a Warrior, I can't farm plat worth a damn, but several other classes can. Paying 7k for a Yak or 15k for an FBSS is a tall order when your main is a Warrior and you can't play 40 hours a week.

If everyone did the need before greed thing, YES we would camp items that we don't need because it wouldn't take as long as it does to get what we need. What reason do I have to camp the FBSS if I already have one? I'm free at that point to tank for a group camping a caster item.

Somebody said it should be one way or the other server wide, while that's a pipe dream I sort of agree with it. You can't just change it to suit your needs. If we all embraced need before greed, we would get what we need. If we all just greed rolled and sold everything, we would all make plat and buy what we need. If we do a combination of both, expectations get set and people get disappointed.

[Mournblade]

If my group let me grab some phat lewtz that I could actually use, I would be more than happy to offer up the item that was replaced for the group to roll for. That only seems fair to me.

[mmiles8]

I don't really think need before greed stops at a certain plat value. That's kind of stupid. From the perspective of a Warrior, I can't farm plat worth a damn, but several other classes can. Paying 7k for a Yak or 15k for an FBSS is a tall order when your main is a Warrior and you can't play 40 hours a week.

There are many many ways to earn plat that don't involve killing HGs or winning rolls on loot.

Get creative, next time you feel frustrated with the amount of plat you aren't making, take the time to figure out a way to make it. Look at what people are buying, browse allakhazam/eqtraders and brainstorm, find a niche, diversify your market so that your existence does not hinge on any one thing, build on your strengths and work with others to fill out your weaknesses.

I had made 2k and mastered most tradeskills by level 16, all while helping people lower than me afford their basics and outfit themselves. I'm terrible at EC and haggling. I had others do my selling, cut them shares while I went out finding new deals and items of value. Become a part of a flow, spend some make more.

[Breuce]

On my server, it seemed to progress pretty quickly kunark era from mostly NBG to FFA. And I don't think that was really a terrible move: when it comes down to it, a lot of classes get hosed in straight NBG, and this likely makes specific camps a lot harder to actually find the required classes for, etc.

Basically, I just always insisted that the loot 'rules' were set upon joining, and enforced (hopefully by myself, or somebody i trusted, but generally people seem pretty reasonable) I used to put together groups with fairly strange loot rules, but as long as they were fair and set in the beginning, people almost always played nice, and I think that's the most important part of the whole deal: If the entire group agrees on NBG rules, or whatever <i>before the mobs start dying</i>, it takes a ninja-looter to mess things up, not just somebody deciding that they deserve big_ticket_item_01 when it actually drops.

I would bet that it's almost inevitable that sometime in the kunark era, FFA will become the predominant loot model, but until then I think people just need to make sure everything is taken care of beforehand.

[stormlord]

I've never been in a group that was GBN unless everyone agreed about it. Same for NBG. If you're complaining that tells me you don't know how to be a leader and how to engage and manage a group. If you feel NBG is important than you must bring this up with your group. Quit the group if you feel you're not being listened to, but I've never met a group of people who couldn't compromise or listen. If you can't find a middle ground, it's equally your fault for not giving good impressions. Don't be afraid to draw a line - to set the rules. Confront it.

If someone is a **** and ninja loots it, then let everyone on the server know.

Sorry, this sounds to me like someone who didn't speak up or didn't communicate well and then was the unwilling victim of a greed loot. Then they yelled and screamed and came here. Like I said, and i'm honest about this, i've never been in a group that couldn't compromise or listen. Never. This person is probably partly to blame for their experience.

Communication is so important to prevent mishaps like this. People need to talk and not hold their feelings to themselves. A good group exchanges information and sets up the ground rules early.

Know what else? People expect rewards for playing. Of course they want an item for an upgrade or to sell it. That's how this game and others work. Greed is a natural element of gameplay. It helps to motivate us. It gets out of control when the rules are skewed or disorderly. Blaming greed is a scapegoat. Blame the lack of leadership. The lack of communication and rules that everyday people understand. That's the culprit.