Wizards...what were they thinking?

[Lojik]

A class without heals, buffs or tanking ability should be as good as any other class at doing damage. Otherwise you might as well roll a druid. And most people do.

And if you notice, many people stop playing druids 51+ cause they can't get groups as easily + they aren't as useful on raids as wizards. Check out the population breakdown of level 60's, wizards are at 7%...the same as druids.

Obviously starting on a new server isn't an option on P99...the damage has already been done

But your premise was that Verant got this wrong from the start. At the start, wizards would be competing for groups with non-twinked melee so this wasn't as big of an issue. It's not like they could foresee the coming of p99 and how long Kunark would be around (on this server,) nor would they care if they could foresee this outcome. People hating on wizards in exp groups is largely a byproduct of the state that p99 is in as opposed to the design of the class.

Many other situations? Apart from once in a blue moon AE groups and dragging mobs around a secluded zone every 10 minutes, I really can't think of "many" situations.

If you plan on playing for a decent amount of time, leveling from 1-29 is only a small part of the leveling process on p99. 51-60 takes about as much time as 1-50, and for most people 30-50 takes longer than 1-29. For wizards it's slightly different, as leveling gets easier at level 29 with snare, then at 34 with circle of force. Low 50's are also easy to solo in, and 55+ it really is not hard to get an aoe group (and 55+ often takes up 1/2 of people's leveling time on this game.) Solo exp is almost always quicker than group experience, save for awesome duo's I think (which is really limited to a few classes.)

Again, I ask you what level is your wizard? Think of leveling up to 29 as the "hazing" portion of your wizards career. If you can make it through, you'll become part of the wizard fraternity, and life really does get a lot easier. Almost all wizards I've met have been pretty cool and helpful, I feel like moreso than other classes (I know this is just generalizing.) And once you get to 60, you'll still be desired for raiding/raid mobilization/ae groups moreso than a lot of other 60 classes.

[Morningbreath]

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you plan on playing for a decent amount of time, leveling from 1-29 is only a small part of the leveling process on p99. 51-60 takes about as much time as 1-50, and for most people 30-50 takes longer than 1-29. For wizards it's slightly different, as leveling gets easier at level 29 with snare, then at 34 with circle of force. Low 50's are also easy to solo in, and 55+ it really is not hard to get an aoe group (and 55+ often takes up 1/2 of people's leveling time on this game.) Solo exp is almost always quicker than group experience, save for awesome duo's I think (which is really limited to a few classes.)

I'm still waiting for your "many" examples where wizards are better than other classes in groups.

Again, I ask you what level is your wizard? Think of leveling up to 29 as the "hazing" portion of your wizards career. If you can make it through, you'll become part of the wizard fraternity, and life really does get a lot easier. Almost all wizards I've met have been pretty cool and helpful, I feel like moreso than other classes (I know this is just generalizing.) And once you get to 60, you'll still be desired for raiding/raid mobilization/ae groups moreso than a lot of other 60 classes

Everquest is a game. It's not the jr high gymn class where we pick on the new kid with low self esteem. Wizards didn't need to be "hazed", they needed to be balanced as a solo caster or buffed to the level of damage that melee were putting out in groups. It's as simple as that.

[Splorf22]

If wizards put out rogue-like sustained damage in XP groups, in addition to root/stun/ports/higher burst damage, there would be no reason to play a rogue. Edit: Just to recap a bit:

1. Wizards are probably the easiest class to level to 60 in terms of time actually spent in front of the computer. 1-29 is rough, but then you can quad kite and do homework or chores or whatnot while you med up. Once you hit 56, you can go to Chardok.
2. Wizards are the single best raid class for Kunark, bar none. Only Rogues with Avatar, Duellist, and some luck can come close for pure DPS, and unlike Rogues Wizards are critical for mobilization. Velious will make them a bit weaker, but bane spells will keep them in the hunt for top DPS, and they still have the mobilization ways
3. Ports are a huge convenience.

So sure, a necromancer or a magician is much better in a duo or an XP group. They can also solo reasonably well. But when was the last time you heard a raid guild say WE NEED MORE NECROMANCERS! Or, compare vs a rogue. Rogues are great in groups . . . but they can't solo at all. Nor can they port.

Again: Wizards are not a weak class. They are very specialized and kinda boring, but not weak.

[Lojik]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If wizards put out rogue-like sustained damage in XP groups, in addition to root/stun/ports/higher burst damage, there would be no reason to play a rogue. Edit: Just to recap a bit:

1. Wizards are probably the easiest class to level to 60 in terms of time actually spent in front of the computer. 1-29 is rough, but then you can quad kite and do homework or chores or whatnot while you med up. Once you hit 56, you can go to Chardok.
2. Wizards are the single best raid class for Kunark, bar none. Only Rogues with Avatar, Duellist, and some luck can come close for pure DPS, and unlike Rogues Wizards are critical for mobilization. Velious will make them a bit weaker, but bane spells will keep them in the hunt for top DPS, and they still have the mobilization ways
3. Ports are a huge convenience.

So sure, a necromancer or a magician is much better in a duo or an XP group. They can also solo reasonably well. But when was the last time you heard a raid guild say WE NEED MORE NECROMANCERS! Or, compare vs a rogue. Rogues are great in groups . . . but they can't solo at all. Nor can they port.

Again: Wizards are not a weak class. They are very specialized and kinda boring, but not weak.

Apparently none of this matters because they are not strong relative to other classes in a traditional experience group

I'm still waiting for your "many" examples where wizards are better than other classes in groups.

I never said that.

Like I said before, there are many other situations besides your traditional exp group where wizard is one of, if not the ideal class

A traditional experience group ie a tank,healer,cc,dps etc. is only one of the many situations you can find yourself in on this server, and usually is slower than soloing, especially as a wizard. I didn't try to group until aoe group level because the exp was much better soloing. Other situations you might find yourself in: solo exp, duo exp (wizard + bard or wiz + rog can be great duos), standard group experience, aoe group exp, raiding. I'll leave out farming but wizards do ok, probably in the middle of the pack for farming money camps. But of those thats what, 5 situations? Wizard holds its own for 4/5.

Everquest is a game. It's not the jr high gymn class where we pick on the new kid with low self esteem. Wizards didn't need to be "hazed", they needed to be balanced as a solo caster or buffed to the level of damage that melee were putting out in groups. It's as simple as that.

You still won't answer my question as to what level your wizard is. Life is hard at lower levels, but better at higher levels where frankly life kinda sucks for leveling for most classes.

[Vadd]

First class to 50 on EQ Live was a Wizard, no? With like Lvl 24 spells... I heard.

[JackFlash]

OP just doesn't have enough experience playing a wizard to know what he's talking about. You have to be creative.

I've had no problems finding EXP groups when I really want one. Use your /w all "xxxx zone" and start asking to be put on lists for camps. Or better yet port yourself somewhere and start asking around. If that fails, make your own.

Otherwise go play some other game with multiclass watered down crap. This is classic EQ son.

[fullmetalcoxman]

Originally Posted by Morningbreath [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm still waiting for your "many" examples where wizards are better than other classes in groups.



Everquest is a game. It's not the jr high gymn class where we pick on the new kid with low self esteem. Wizards didn't need to be "hazed", they needed to be balanced as a solo caster or buffed to the level of damage that melee were putting out in groups. It's as simple as that.

Sounds like you want to play a rogue.

[Picked]

Wizards and Rogues are two entirely different DPS comparisons. A Wizards DPS is burst, rogue's is sustained. In a group setting well timed nukes can do a lot more than "just dps" They can cancel out a healing mob, or gate mob. They can do away with the need of snare.

So comparing the two as far as DPS is concerned is hard because of how differently they both perform. Can a Rogue unload an entire tank of mana spamming spells getting mobs dead faster to prevent wipe? No. They are what they are.

I play both a wizard and rogue and enjoy them much the same. They are both great DPS and they both contribute just fine to a group. Both have areas in which they excel and ones they don't.

By saying one is useless because another one is better in a certain area just isn't true.

[gotrocks]

Originally Posted by Picked [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizards and Rogues are two entirely different DPS comparisons. A Wizards DPS is burst, rogue's is sustained. In a group setting well timed nukes can do a lot more than "just dps" They can cancel out a healing mob, or gate mob. They can do away with the need of snare.

So comparing the two as far as DPS is concerned is hard because of how differently they both perform. Can a Rogue unload an entire tank of mana spamming spells getting mobs dead faster to prevent wipe? No. They are what they are.

I play both a wizard and rogue and enjoy them much the same. They are both great DPS and they both contribute just fine to a group. Both have areas in which they excel and ones they don't.

By saying one is useless because another one is better in a certain area just isn't true.

picked makes a really, really good point here. everyone always bashes on wizards because they aren't 'sustained dps' but they dont really need to be. there are plenty of classes that do that already. the wiz is there for when you NEED that mob dead right now, and two ice comets or conflargs are exactly what you need to make it happen.

think op just needs to roll a different class and quit qq'ing.

[gotrocks]

Oh, and we all just need to stop arguing with OP because he's not going to get it, nor does he think that we get it.

But we do, op. We do. You just don't [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]