Spells: Enc spell hate too much?

[Elerion]

The descriptions in this thread match how it worked in Live pretty well.

Tash was always high hate for such a "small" spell. Many times higher than for the Malo line. The general consensus in the chanter community back then was that this was due to it adding poison counters, which causes significant additional hate. See Disease Cloud (disease counter, but similar hate effect). This is a major reason why shamans were preferred slowers - they could consistently land their slow much sooner, while enchanters had to gamble on a non-tash slow or wait until the tank had built heavy aggro before they could tash.

Enchanter nuke line was always massive hate compared to similar spells by other casters. This is due to it doing a stun effect, which is massive hate. See paladin low level stuns, and how they were used to create unbeatable hate during PoP. Somewhere around PoP the stun was removed from the later enchanter nukes to counter this effect.

Charm was always very high hate, as we all know.

Mesmerize was always very significant hate. There are two reasons why this may have been disguised to you in the past.
First off, later mezzes have significant chances to memblur the mob (30%). Classic mezzes only have a 1% chance to do this, which gives them an illusion of being higher hate.
Second, back in the day most competent tanks knew that you should taunt mezzed mobs until it landed (Noted by the 'I'll teach you to interfere with me' line if the mob can speak), which would put them above the enchanter regardless of how much hate the enchanter had amassed (ignoring hate bonus technicalities). If your tank isn't landing taunt or using massive aggro spells like disease cloud/stuns, you will find a mob that has been mezzed multiple times will be very hard to peel.

[Zallarenya]

I usually hate to rez very old threads, but rezzing an old one is better than creating a duplicate.

In my (limited, level 13) experience, the Choke line generates greater threat than anything else -- way more than it should. Sometimes I can wait until a mob is 50% dead before I engage it with Choke, and I end up tanking it the rest of the fight.

[mmiles8]

One thing to consider that's often forgotten, is that your level of HP (current value, not percentage of max) plays a very large role in whether or not you get aggro. Being grouped with a cleric who symbols the tank and no one else, a very well geared tank with twice as many hp as you, or simply having crap for HP yourself, etc. Large disparities will cause an aggro gap. I've said this numerous times in numerous threads, and most have found this knowledge to be helpful. Any time you're experiencing threat issues regardless of how late into a fight you cast your spell on the mob, either ask the tank to click off his HP buff, or go get a better one yourself.

[BeelzeBob]

Originally Posted by Zallarenya [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I usually hate to rez very old threads, but rezzing an old one is better than creating a duplicate.

In my (limited, level 13) experience, the Choke line generates greater threat than anything else -- way more than it should. Sometimes I can wait until a mob is 50% dead before I engage it with Choke, and I end up tanking it the rest of the fight.

Enchanter animation pets never tanked past gaining the choke spell on live, the only way to solo with the animation is to snare kite and nuke, while the pet hacks away. If you want to play enchanter like a pet class learn to charm.

[Reiker]

Originally Posted by mmiles8 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One thing to consider that's often forgotten, is that your level of HP (current value, not percentage of max) plays a very large role in whether or not you get aggro. Being grouped with a cleric who symbols the tank and no one else, a very well geared tank with twice as many hp as you, or simply having crap for HP yourself, etc. Large disparities will cause an aggro gap. I've said this numerous times in numerous threads, and most have found this knowledge to be helpful. Any time you're experiencing threat issues regardless of how late into a fight you cast your spell on the mob, either ask the tank to click off his HP buff, or go get a better one yourself.

lol

[mmiles8]

lol

When you find a break in posting one line trolls, test it yourself [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Zallarenya]

Originally Posted by BeelzeBob

Enchanter animation pets never tanked past gaining the choke spell on live, the only way to solo with the animation is to snare kite and nuke, while the pet hacks away. If you want to play enchanter like a pet class learn to charm.

I'm talking about full groups, not soloing.

Originally Posted by mmiles8

One thing to consider that's often forgotten, is that your level of HP (current value, not percentage of max) plays a very large role in whether or not you get aggro. Being grouped with a cleric who symbols the tank and no one else, a very well geared tank with twice as many hp as you, or simply having crap for HP yourself, etc. Large disparities will cause an aggro gap. I've said this numerous times in numerous threads, and most have found this knowledge to be helpful. Any time you're experiencing threat issues regardless of how late into a fight you cast your spell on the mob, either ask the tank to click off his HP buff, or go get a better one yourself.

I don't think this explains it. This was a low-level, non-twink, brand new toons group; we all had the same HP buffs - Pally Courage, Druid Skin. There wasn't much of a HP disparity.

If the difference in HP of naked enchanter and naked paladin who is a level below is great enough to cause this, it seems a little broken. I certainly don't remember having this problem on Live. Admittedly I didn't play Classic, only Kunark+. If it really was like this before Kunark, nothing to see here!

[mmiles8]

My intent wasn't to detract from your statement regarding the threat from the spell. Just throwing you some info to help.

[ryandward]

This thread is definitely not just QQing, I basically have quit my chanter because of spells generating far too much hate.

[Merrik]

I tend to agree here, I specifically remember Tash and mez spells generating a ton of agro, and maybe it was because i didn't do a lot of DOTing mobs as a chanter back on live, but choke just seems to be stupid agro. I always remember slows being a pretty heavy agro builder, but on p99 I can pull with slow and the mob can be off of me after two hits of a pet, doesn't matter if taunt goes off or not. But god forbid I cast a dot that ticks for 12 damage (yes I know it debuffs too) because the mob suddenly thinks I'm the anti-christ and wants to rape my ass. Even if I body pull a mob and my pet jumps on it immediatly, I can do nothing to the mob until my pet has it to 50%, choke the mob and i have to tank the rest of the fight, since its a guarantee that if I see "soandso hits you for 1 point of damage" I will be interrupted.

I duo with my brothers necro though, so to be honest it's really not that big of a deal since I almost always root mobs so i can take a hit and get my pet on it anyway.