Soloing vs. grouping, once and for all

[Messianic]

don't you think the people playing 18 hours a day in 1999 would have figured out that grouping was crappy exp? It's not like you truly need years of experience to learn how to level fast in EQ.

if the exp bar moved faster when solo'ing, everyone would have been solo'ing.

Not exactly, because not everyone experienced every single class in classic, and therefore didn't experience how efficient mages or necros were, or tried to solo and failed utterly and decided they wouldn't.

And yes, experience does dictate how fast you level in EQ, and more knowledge about the best spots plays a huge role. More broad experience in the game = Better knowledge about where and how to grind.

Gear is also more easily accessible here than it was on live, with a few notable exceptions (FBSS, Mith2hander).

I made 6-7k before hitting level 30 because I knew what I was doing - I gained multiple levels a day occasionally in my 20s (and no levels for a few weeks given my play schedule).

[ShivanAngel]

Im soloing mostly now or duoing with my brother and the exp is really good. The duoing isnt that bad but god soloing is boring.

Choke
Root
Weaken
Let pet beat it down...

Repeat times infinity....

I would much rather be in a full group constantly chain pulling mobs as long as they were competent.

My brother and I were actually talking about this the other night, part of it is you risk something inviting that third person into your duo. If they are bad they actually slow you down. So you might be hesitant to bring new people in.

[yaeger]

Yeah, I've talked about this in other topics. We've calculated out the exp, we ran the numbers, checked the difference and it's amazing.

Essentially a good soloer, Mage, can kill 6 mobs in 5 minutes at a good camp spot with little downtime.

A group, to get comparable exp, would have to kill about 25-30 mobs in 5 mins which is impossible.

It'd be hard to find a place with 25-30 mobs that respawn every 5 mins. It's hard for a cleric to heal the tank through 25-30 mobs every 5 mins. A wizard cannot nuke 25-30 mobs in 5 mins and still have mana.

The list goes on and on...

Basically the group exp bonus is 10% now, went to 20% in 2001, then went to 80% in 2004.

I hope the devs give the server some kind of non-classic change, we need incentive to group up.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by yaeger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, I've talked about this in other topics. We've calculated out the exp, we ran the numbers, checked the difference and it's amazing.

Essentially a good soloer, Mage, can kill 6 mobs in 5 minutes at a good camp spot with little downtime.

A group, to get comparable exp, would have to kill about 25-30 mobs in 5 mins which is impossible.

It'd be hard to find a place with 25-30 mobs that respawn every 5 mins. It's hard for a cleric to heal the tank through 25-30 mobs every 5 mins. A wizard cannot nuke 25-30 mobs in 5 mins and still have mana.

The list goes on and on...

Basically the group exp bonus is 10% now, went to 20% in 2003, then went to 80% in 2004.

I hope the devs give the server some kind of non-classic change, we need incentive to group up.

This is an argument for nerfing mages, not incentivizing grouping...

[ShivanAngel]

The only thing that is really insane is the fire pet Dshield (however the thing has no HP). Its damage=level (or at least, im pretty sure it does). So at 20 the pet has a perma 18ish point damage shield, thats what a level 40ish mage can cast.

Also if you think they are insane now wait until they get that beast that is the epic pet... Thing is crazy.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by ShivanAngel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing that is really insane is the fire pet Dshield (however the thing has no HP). Its damage=level (or at least, im pretty sure it does). So at 20 the pet has a perma 18ish point damage shield, thats what a level 40ish mage can cast.

Also if you think they are insane now wait until they get that beast that is the epic pet... Thing is crazy.

It takes quite a while for one epic pet to be "manufactured" on the server...that's one of the hardest if not the hardest epic. Don't expect to see them all over the place...

But yes, the fire pet damage shield is insane.

[ShivanAngel]

Oh I agree that the mage epic, is probably one of the most tedious and time consuming. (Close contender with the warrior epic).

But yeah, I remember grouping with a mage with it back in OS during kunark.... Was one of the holy shit wow moment.

[yaeger]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is an argument for nerfing mages, not incentivizing grouping...

No, that was an example using mages as a solo class. Every other class that solo's effectively earns more exp than a group hands down.

Take that number down a bit, say a Druid kills 3 mobs in 5 mins routinely. A group would have to pull, kill, and med up enough to continue killing ~18 mobs every 5 mins.

Still impossible to match the soloer.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by yaeger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, that was an example using mages as a solo class. Every other class that solo's effectively earns more exp than a group hands down.

Take that number down a bit, say a Druid kills 3 mobs in 5 mins routinely. A group would have to pull, kill, and med up enough to continue killing ~18 mobs every 5 mins.

Still impossible to match the soloer.

I see what you did there.

This is also an argument against the idea that grouping was faster on live...math seems to indicate otherwise.

[yaeger]

Here's the math.

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not true, I've checked it with debugging repeatedly. In fact what happens is:

Example mob worth 1000 xp.

One person killing one mob gets 1000xp.

Six people killing six mobs get 6600xp (which equates to 1100xp per player before normalization).

If all six players are the same level and are class/race combinations without any XP modifier then all six players will get 1100xp each.

However, if the group is again the same level, but has some penalties etc, it works out like this:

Race        Class    Per Mob  For Six 
---------   -------  -------  ------- 
Human       Cleric     162       974 
Ogre        Warrior    174      1042 
Halfling    Rogue      142       851 
Erudite     Wizard     180      1083 
Barbarian   Shaman     171      1026 
Half-elf    Ranger     271      1624 
---------   -------  -------  -------
Total                 1100      6600

So except for the Human Cleric and the Halfing Rogue, all members of the group earn more XP for killing 6 mobs while grouped than they did killing one mob solo.

The benefits of solo'ing vs. grouping depend on a lot of factors, but from a raw XP perspective, if the group can consistently kill 6 mobs in the amount of time the solo'er kills one mob, the group will earn faster XP over time.

That's why Sony/Verant kept raising the group experience bonuses. Groups cannot keep up with the dedicated solo classes.

That's why we see so many druids, mages, necros. You can level alone without the hassle of groups, not having to share any of the loot, and you gain a ton more experience.

Mathematically (an example), a mage killing a mob every 50 seconds, will earn 2-3 times the exp a busy group would get.