What would it take for a new mmo to recapture the feeling of eq?

[Lopretni]

this is just my perspective as someone who has dicked around in a lot of MMOs but usually don't poopsock to exhaust every ounce of content the minute it comes out

making the entire game a challenge from 1 to max level. MMOs nowadays have two issues with this leveling vs max level problem. firstly they tend to put forth all their resources and effort into developing endgame content, especially as far as expansions go, so unless you already have rushed to max level the game is usually really fucking boring. which is the other problem, early level stuff is always so fucking easy and mind numbingly dull. yet they still want to make you feel like you've accomplished something, so it's grossly padded out to take forever.

EQ corrects this by having challenging dungeons that you can begin adventuring in fairly early on once you've gotten your feet wet and your class has its basic kit. the game is challenging but rewarding from level 1 until you're taking on dragons (if you're in the "right" guilds anyway but that's another topic)

drop the Diablo loot system. EQ has neat items because it's just 2 categories - mundane items, and magic items. it's not just a race to get your purple epix and because items aren't restricted as hard as WoW you'll find a single item has a lot of value not only for many classes but also across a much greater lifespan than WoW where you're chucking items in and out of your inventory every few levels.

stop with bloated stats. there is not a single fucking reason players should be able to reach a million health, that's fucking retarded. keep the ceiling low and this plays back into items having more value over time.

stop automating everything. the whole fucking point of joining an MMO, an online game, is to INTERACT WITH OTHER PLAYERS. when MMOs automate and instance everything it completely removes the social aspect which creates stories. EQ was so cool because veterans have crazy stories. just like D&D in that regard, for non-players it's just fun to sit around and listen to the crazy shit people encounter. not so much when everything is automated, pre-scripted and completely boxed in the way it is in every MMO now.

[Othniel626]

Originally Posted by Grivyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1: No instancing - nothing kills a community like instancing.
2: No leashing - knowing a mob will chase you until either you or it die gave a sense of trepidation to making that 50/50 pull.
3: No hand holding/spoon feeding, discovering an obscure item then figuring out what to do with it was part of EQ questing. Personally I hated seeing a bright yellow "!" mark above NPC's then the progression to getting more XP from questing than out fighting on top of that.
4: In general the higher you get the more you grouped be it for that rare spawn/rare drop camp or just plain XP'ing which in turn feed back into that thing called community
5: Respawning naked, nothing made death more challenging than the naked corpse run. It also forged reputations of those that would take the time to help out and those that ignored pleas for help. Once again leading into that fable community thingy.

Without delving into too much of the philosophical/abstract side of it, these things are what make EQ different than most of the other MMOs I've played, especially the tether/respawning naked aspect.

It adds a ton more challenge to people doing at least those two things. Played on an emulator WoW server for a couple of years (never got the live experience), and the tether thing made the game a joke. Oh crap, I pulled 3 dogs, lemme just run 40 feet away, they'll forget everything.

Not to mention all the hand-holding that occurs throughout the entire game in most MMO's. The !'s and ?'s above NPC's heads kinda kill the immersion and mostly lead to me skipping entire conversations because I knew it would just tell me what to do and send me to the right person on the map afterwards.

Lastly, as much as EQ has it's grindy parts for levels, it's got close to 10 different places (less at some levels) where I can go to get exp. It doesn't boil down to running heroics on a list of 4 different dungeons for your level that you can insta-teleport to if you queue into Group Finder.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Lopretni [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

stop automating everything. the whole fucking point of joining an MMO, an online game, is to INTERACT WITH OTHER PLAYERS. when MMOs automate and instance everything it completely removes the social aspect which creates stories. EQ was so cool because veterans have crazy stories. just like D&D in that regard, for non-players it's just fun to sit around and listen to the crazy shit people encounter. not so much when everything is automated, pre-scripted and completely boxed in the way it is in every MMO now.

This is because modern MMO targeting solo players - and I would say 99% of players are soloers either cause they prefer it this way or simply don't have time for prolonged play times that grouping requires (such as myself atm).

Of course games like WoW try to provided content for both kinds of player (hence group instances/raids) but in a huge world of soloers where your kind (groupers) only makes up 1% OR LESS - you do feel terribly lost.

For game type like EQ1 its better to have a game with maybe 10k population where everyone is at least open to grouping style mindset, rather than to have a game with 10 million players with 10k grouper horribly diluted within.

[Portasaurus]

Bring back EC Tunnel casinos!!!!

[Glenzig]

The biggest issue is this. There were no target demographics for EQ. They didnt make the game a certain way for certain types of gamers,they just made it the way they thought it should be.

Also cocaine.

[Lopretni]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is because modern MMO targeting solo players - and I would say 99% of players are soloers either cause they prefer it this way or simply don't have time for prolonged play times that grouping requires (such as myself atm).

i think EQ already solved this though, there are classes which are very social and group reliant and classes that can solo very well and arguably more efficiently than if they were in a group. what WoW has tried to do has just made MMOs multiplayer games, not Massive in any sense of the word.

[andrew23]

Community... here's why...

1) Grouping begins early, and levels are slow. So time playing/meeting/building relationships is longer and has a long lasting "real" effect. A few days missed in WoW will have characters at such a level difference they will no longer group.

2) Players know their character and the world, and are willing to interact with other characters in it. You will find more interaction in buying an EJAC than you will find in a week of WOW. Unless you consider "gogogogogogogogogogo" interaction.

3) Difficult and rewarding. The slow progress and challenging mechanics have you coming back for more when you actually get somewhere. Because it feels like you've attained something, and you want to continue your legacy.

4) You can begin meeting/playing/working with end game players as early as level 46, which only promotes the team work mentality. Unlike other MMOs where anything less than MAX level and some drops is UNACCEPTABLE!

As far as "time consuming and life draining" comments, lets not be naive. Nerds dump TONS more time into WOW than they should. TONS of time into LOL, TONS of time into COD. Everquest doesn't require more time than any other video game. What everquest does require is a team player attitude and a level of focus that sadly most people don't have. So they claim it takes forever, but really... it only takes forever if you suck ass at networking, have no social skills, and lack the focus required to earn your keep.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Lopretni [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i think EQ already solved this though, there are classes which are very social and group reliant and classes that can solo very well and arguably more efficiently than if they were in a group. what WoW has tried to do has just made MMOs multiplayer games, not Massive in any sense of the word.

Well, I have to say this doesn't really work very well.
EQ PvE enviroment is tuned to a group difficulty, so you can't solo these mobs like you can in WoW/EQ2 without being either - a very powerful class inherently (which will be also powerful in a group) or having very specific set of class skills/spells

Some classes which were intended to be solo-friendly - such as ranger, paly, sk - are in fact not so great both solo and in group, and hit with horrendous XP penalty. While classes that shine at soloing - druid, necro, - also great in groups.
While it should have been there are other way around - 0% xp penalty for hybrids and 40% penalty for druid/necro.
The only hybrid that is actually powerful soloer that deserves 40% penalty - is bard.

IMHO - this problems doesn't really have a good solution.

[Clark]

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[Lopretni]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[snip]

IMHO - this problems doesn't really have a good solution.

well i think it's a problem that may not need a solution, even if the way the devs intended it didn't pan out there's still an equilibrium and sense of normalcy. i think the "solution" is to make all classes homogenized and boring and make all the enemies super weak which isn't very fun. if it ain't broke don't fix it. not to say you couldn't make improvements, IIRC Velious eliminates the exp penalties doesn't it? so i guess that's a step in the right direction.