Necro vs Wizzy. Which brings more to a group?

[Amyas]

necro

[Ravager]

A Wizard is a fine 6th slot for a group, but they are rarely played right. A Wizard who is paying attention to what is going on and uses the handful of tools at his disposal effectively is oil for the machine. DPS should never be their primary concern in a group and Wizards that only nuke and then afk med for 20 minutes are the reason they are hated in groups as much as they are.

A well timed nuke can send a mob into low hp flee mode, effectively cutting the fight in half, which means less time the mob spends wailing on the tank, and less need for heals. A well placed stun can stop a nuke or a heal in its tracks, cheaply in terms of mana vs what would other wise be spent on heals. Root can be used for prox aggro, getting a mob off of a cleric or chanter or ghetto cc in a pinch and snare keeps mobs from fleeing. Of course, one argues that other classes can do all of this too and it makes the Wizard superfluous, but the Wizard can free those classes to perform their other roles more effectively. Things run smoother when everyone has a specific role to play.

Sadly, the subtleties of the class are lost on most people and as a result their desirability isn't what it could be. So if you want to group and you're set on those two choices, Necromancer is the choice to make, however, they get passed over almost as often as Wizards because most people don't play Necros right in a group either (they insist on letting the pet tank, they waste mana dotting mobs that die in 30 seconds, they don't bother positioning their pets or turning off taunt, etc.)

[Teppler]

Necro's are even more effective when nuking in group situations because their mana regen is so much higher than Wizzies. Wizzies nukes are like 10% more efficient while necros mana regen is like twice as fast.

Wizards get stuns don't they? That's one tool that necros don't have.

[katrik]

I wouldn't even consider a wizard a grouping class. Necros are so much more useful in group situations. DPS wise they are complete crap. The only use they bring is for emergency situations where they can burn a mob super fast.

[thufir]

Originally Posted by meanhappyguy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nothing new to say about wizzie vs necros in groups, I think that has pretty much been answered. My wizzie is almost to Seb-level, which is where I would think wizzies would start to shine. Nuke down those gating and casting mobs before they can get their spells off. Not really looking forward to the 10khp mobs, though! I think that is the only situation where a group would prefer a wizard over any other dps class, that or an AE group.

Seb is actually where everyone eschews wizards entirely. Up until then you can occasionally get groups in dungeons around the world, but once you get to Seb people shun you completely. You can barely nuke down a single mob with most of your mana bar. Stuff's just too fat.

The main problems with wizards are:
1) other classes can nuke almost as well as you can
2) nuking is the most inefficient way to spend your mana, damage-wise
3) nuking is the thing you do best

There are times when these issues are not terribly relevant - sometimes you just have to take a mob down quickly and burning out your whole mana bar doesn't matter - but most of the time this makes for a very inefficient XP group member.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by thufir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seb is actually where everyone eschews wizards entirely. Up until then you can occasionally get groups in dungeons around the world, but once you get to Seb people shun you completely. You can barely nuke down a single mob with most of your mana bar. Stuff's just too fat.

The main problems with wizards are:
1) other classes can nuke almost as well as you can
2) nuking is the most inefficient way to spend your mana, damage-wise
3) nuking is the thing you do best

There are times when these issues are not terribly relevant - sometimes you just have to take a mob down quickly and burning out your whole mana bar doesn't matter - but most of the time this makes for a very inefficient XP group member.

Wizards can do one other thing the best: Porting. I guess that's all they are good for, heh. Still going to try to level a wizard. Pain feels good.

[Vallanor]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizards can do one other thing the best: Porting. I guess that's all they are good for, heh. Still going to try to level a wizard. Pain feels good.

Leveling a mildly twinked wizard (jboots and some +mana items) was one of the easiest and most relaxing leveling experiences I've had in EQ. That includes a fungi-twinked ranger with haste and a Woodsman's Staff as well as an iksar necromancer. Their ability to solo up to the mid-50s quickly and painlessly should not be discounted. If you have a run speed buff, you can quad at level 8!

It may be lonely, but it's awfully efficient.

[lurk]

Basically the only time a wizard gets sustained dps above a shaman pet is with a rend robe. Probably not true but not far off.

[Vallanor]

Originally Posted by lurk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Basically the only time a wizard gets sustained dps above a shaman pet is with a rend robe. Probably not true but not far off.

Incredibly sad, but probably true. I'm not sure what the maximum +mana regen you can get is, but let's say between medding and C2, GoB, PotG, and Bard song you regen 50 mana a tick at level 60. Using the 4:1 damage to mana ratio of your best spell (ice spear), your maximum sustained damage is 200 per med tick or 33.3 damage per second. This is worse than a decently equipped paladin with only worn haste. And this assumes no resists and maximum mana regen. It's even worse under average conditions.

Toss a clicky robe in the mix though, and things get waaay better. Just spamming a Velk robe gives you ~42 dps for zero mana (other than the med ticks you miss while casting). Pepper in an occasional ice spear on top of robe clicks and you are in way better shape sustained dps-wise. Groups would be well-advised to take on a robe-clicking wizard at end game, though in my experience most are still uninterested. Sad wizard face.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Necro's are even more effective when nuking in group situations because their mana regen is so much higher than Wizzies. Wizzies nukes are like 10% more efficient while necros mana regen is like twice as fast.

Wizards get stuns don't they? That's one tool that necros don't have.

Screaming Terror, level 24 necro spell, is a 18 seconds stun (that will break to any damage but interrupts casting just fine).