Lets be real about P1999 PvP Server - Server Devs

[Jigga]

Dark vs Light = A guild from both sides being on top.

Darks prevailing will just cause the lesser guilds on the light team to eithe reroll as dark or to form a zerg of Lights

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Jigga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Darks prevailing will just cause the lesser guilds on the light team to eithe reroll as dark or to form a zerg of Lights

There is nothing on the original post that would indicate a lopsided advantage to the dark team. Some would argue that it would be the exact opposite. Personally, I think it would be about even. It just depends what guilds choose what side.

All of these so called "disadvantages" to a team server are nothing in comparison to a FFA server collapsing after 1-2 months.

[Zakaton]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is nothing on the original post that would indicate a lopsided advantage to the dark team. Some would argue that it would be the exact opposite.

If Sullen Zek was any indication, things would be seriously lopsided in favor of the dark team.

[Macken]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're a caster, don't be a moron and zone in until all the melees do first, then we won't have to listen to all the caster whines on the forums.

Only whines on forums so far is melees lobbing to throw out levitate and root for the lulz.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Zakaton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If Sullen Zek was any indication, things would be seriously lopsided in favor of the dark team.

Listen man, I was there during the whole thing from day 1 so I know why things turned out the way they did:

The neutral team had Darkenbane and Tides of Wrath at server opening (although I don't remember exactly when ToW formed). The evil team had Ruin and Hate then a bunch of other minor guilds with no real sway on server power like Da Bashin Iggles.

Darkenbane (neutral) was probably the best PvP guild on the server at the start. Meaning they didn't have anyone in their guild that was just outright terrible. Both Ruin (evil) and Hate (evil) had people who were both good and bad. Hate was actually pretty terrible at this point in time when Milt was leader.

So what caused the drastic evil dominance? Darkenbane was the biggest griefer guild on server and they were on neutral team *not* evil. They trained their own team to steal xp spots from them and all kinds of stupid shit.

The high end evils didn't really have any of these problems like the divide between Darkenbane and Tides of Wrath. The two guilds could have easily joined together and overwhelmed Ruin while we were raiding or leveling but they didn't. The best attempt I even saw to stop Ruin from progressing was when we were standing in Western Wastes and a Darkenbane halfling started running at us with a train of 20 dragons. I saw him coming and we were all ready to nuke him to death but his computer lagged out and he just plopped into the ground 100 yards away from us. The skyshrine attack did end up stopping us for a day or two, but you're gonna need more than one of those to catch up.

The only team that was a failure due to population issues and not something else is the good team. They only had Black Prophecy. If you were to combine the good and neutral team populations together (which is basically what the original post is), they will easily be able to fight against the evils. The odds of them having an advantage are actually greater than disadvantage imo. All depends who goes to what sides.

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only whines on forums so far is melees lobbing to throw out levitate and root for the lulz.

Root and levitate should work to avoid Z axis melee damage. The only reason it didn't on TZVZ was because it was coded wrong by accident or just not giving a shit about it.

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We've already seen exactly how that works out multiple times in the past. Server population isn't viable for more than like 1-2 months due to reasons mentioned in original post. I assume the people making the server would rather have a more long term success than 1 month of anarchy followed by server closure or reset. There's no point even making a server if you're just going to recreate the failure of TZVZ.

Everything outlined in the original post is there to maximize server population, minimize amount of GM support required to resolve disputes, and prevent someone from taking over the server just by zerging it with a guild of 40 people on day 1. Except for possibly banning dupers or 3rd party app cheaters, no GM support would even be required.




First of all, halfling warriors and a few other combinations could also choose Rallos Zek on the Sullon Zek server and go evil. There is no "blocking" the good team by doing that so I have no idea what you're talking about. They just become and ordinary member of the evil team. There is nothing special about them.

Second of all, you rarely even saw people play these combinations. I don't think I saw a single Rallos Zek halfling once that was over level 10. I definitely didn't see any 50+ ones but it wouldn't even matter if they existed. The only affect it has on the game is that virtually every player character in their starting town can attack them.



This mostly comes down to individual player skill. I can log on a ranger or paladin and send shadowknights to bind point all day. SK isn't some god mode PvP class that you choose at character creation and automatically win every fight. If you're crammed into the entrance of sebillis or something like that, people are much more worried about getting the hell away from the 2h warrior with 20% hp, epic rogue, or monk with tstaff. If you're a caster, don't be a moron and zone in until all the melees do first, then we won't have to listen to all the caster whines on the forums.



He has to run to freeport or innothule swamp or something like that. It's a PvP server. It's not supposed to be easy. There will be other evils in freeport along with goods too. Guard faction doesn't change on PvP server so you can train wherever you normally do.



Warrior race doesn't matter much by level 55+ since kick stuns then. The advantage of being a smaller target balances out with the large race stat bonus.



The whole point of a dark vs light type server is because it's just way more believable having trolls and ogres fighting halflings than it is to have races assigned to teams at random. You can easily tell who is and isn't on your team that way also.

If you did a non-good vs evil setup and just randomly put races on separate teams, what do you call it? The dwarf vs erudite server? The good vs evil one just has more appeal to it but either one is better in the long run than FFA.





Refactioning every NPC in every single town in EQ is extremely unrealistic. That's just too much work to do, it would take too long, break every quest in the game and all the epic quests too. People probably want to start playing on this server before the year 2013 and server devs probably want to keep the code mostly the same as P1999 with the exception of flags for who can attack who.

If you ever want this server to come out, try not to suggest anything other than changing flags of what PC characters can attack one another based on race, diety, or whatever other variable without screwing with any NPC's. I'll add any viable alternatives to the original post that don't result in the server coming out 1 decade from now.

Let me come at your counter-arguments:

The issue with deity specific PvP is no one will roll halfling warriors following Karana, Dark elf mages probably wont roll Solusek Ro either, but it still belies the fact it "blurs" the team spectrum, and in a situation where people will pool 90% of the warrior population into ogres and 90% of the cleric population into dwarf it's hardly balanced and will only preclude to x-teaming, and immortal healing.

That pretty much covers all the counter-arguments you gave me about deity specific PvP, not to mention it's a coding nightmare.

Now you also stated "Refactioning every NPC in every single town in EQ is extremely unrealistic." No it is not, you can globalize factions and this was done several times on servers like Qeynos V. Freeport and several other customization projects, and I'm fairly certain refactioning entire NPC databases only took Secrets and Vile like an hours work?

Also epic NPC's have nothing to do with guard and trainer faction so I don't see how quests be broken? Even if factions are changed you're still able to turn in crushbone belts or gnollfangs just as easily as before barring that you are not KoS of course.

Again, something as minor as .pl editing, perl scripting or even globalizing factions would probably take someone like Secrets or Akkadius like 10 minutes to do, so I really do not know why you're pulling this 2013 thing out of your ass.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The issue with deity specific PvP is no one will roll halfling warriors following Karana

Neutral team's best tank was a halfling, karana warrior named Toodles. Your statement doesn't really make sense. You're obsessed with thinking Ogre SK's and Ogre warriors dominate all PvP when they don't.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in a situation where people will pool 90% of the warrior population into ogres and 90% of the cleric population into dwarf it's hardly balanced and

This is another nonsensical statement. Playing an ogre on a PvP server isn't some giant advantage, you're a giant target to get blown up. When we were fighting Heresy on TZVZ and someone said "KILL REXX", nobody ever replied with "Where is Rexx?".

Trolls on the other hand have regen which is an advantage but they also have 5 FIRE RESIST and are also big targets. Playing a character with 5 fire resist isn't that fun.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but it still belies the fact it "blurs" the team spectrum

Like I said, I never even saw a Rallos Zek halfling over level 10. Even if there are people playing them, they're like a novelty character that people immediately know their names and what team they're on.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

will only preclude to x-teaming, and immortal healing.

It was completely impossible to immortal heal on sullon zek. You can't heal the other team or buff them and there's no level limit for PvP. Can people stop smoking salvia before they post?

The only real xteaming you can do is using a character to train your own team which should probably be the only bannable rule for this server. I'm not talking about at a camp in Guk or something because GM's don't have time for that. I'm talking about someone logging on a level 60 neutral monk and using it to train a neutral raid over and over.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That pretty much covers all the counter-arguments you gave me about deity specific PvP, not to mention it's a coding nightmare.

Now you're just making stuff up. The thing you suggested involves way more work. For the one I listed on the original page, nothing on the server has to be altered at all except who can attack and heal each other.

You're also acting like PvP is town based, like everyone is a UO house fighter or something? You don't need to do anything to guard faction on a Dark vs Light server. All the evils will congregate in places like Grobb, if a good team player wastes his time factioning his way up somehow, it's still just him vs 20x as many evils if he goes into that city. It's still a suicide run.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No it is not, you can globalize factions and this was done several times on servers like Qeynos V. Freeport and several other customization projects, and I'm fairly certain refactioning entire NPC databases only took Secrets and Vile like an hours work?

Those servers probably didn't even have quests and like I already said, the server devs probably want to keep it as close to p1999 server code as possible.

[vinx]

there will always be a way to immy heal w/o FFA
but i do prefer teams and agree FFA sinks fast

gimme my yellow elven names we had on VZ back and id play!

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Neutral team's best tank was a halfling, karana warrior named Toodles. Your statement doesn't really make sense. You're obsessed with thinking Ogre SK's and Ogre warriors dominate all PvP when they don't.



This is another nonsensical statement. Playing an ogre on a PvP server isn't some giant advantage, you're a giant target to get blown up. When we were fighting Heresy on TZVZ and someone said "KILL REXX", nobody ever replied with "Where is Rexx?".

Trolls on the other hand have regen which is an advantage but they also have 5 FIRE RESIST and are also big targets. Playing a character with 5 fire resist isn't that fun.



Like I said, I never even saw a Rallos Zek halfling over level 10. Even if there are people playing them, they're like a novelty character that people immediately know their names and what team they're on.





It was completely impossible to immortal heal on sullon zek. You can't heal the other team or buff them and there's no level limit for PvP. Can people stop smoking salvia before they post?

The only real xteaming you can do is using a character to train your own team which should probably be the only bannable rule for this server. I'm not talking about at a camp in Guk or something because GM's don't have time for that. I'm talking about someone logging on a level 60 neutral monk and using it to train a neutral raid over and over.



Now you're just making stuff up. The thing you suggested involves way more work. For the one I listed on the original page, nothing on the server has to be altered at all except who can attack and heal each other.

You're also acting like PvP is town based, like everyone is a UO house fighter or something? You don't need to do anything to guard faction on a Dark vs Light server. All the evils will congregate in places like Grobb, if a good team player wastes his time factioning his way up somehow, it's still just him vs 20x as many evils if he goes into that city. It's still a suicide run.




Those servers probably didn't even have quests and like I already said, the server devs probably want to keep it as close to p1999 server code as possible.

You're misconstruing everything, I'm not stating that I roll some ogre with 150 stamina and proceed to roflstomp everything from Innothule to East Karana in terms of being overpowered. I'm stating that because they start with 150 str/sta they're going to be the primo choice for tanking in PvE environments thus it will carry over to being the choice for PvP.

It's much easier to play an ogre warrior than say a gnome warrior simply because you get 50% more baseline HP and that is the allure and that is why the majority of the tanking population will be ogre, even on P99 now ogre's and trolls make up the majority of endgame tanks, and I've known only one barbarian during my time here actually tanking in fear.

This is where globalizing faction comes into play, if every player has an absolute choice of what side to be on and where to start, I can roll that ogre SK and start in Qeynos to level up quick off gnollfangs, I can roll that dwarf cleric and start in paineel if I so choose, which is a much better alternative to players than being confined to "good" team because you choose a wood-elf druid, or be confined to "evil" because you want a tanking class that has more than 75 Str/Sta

There also has to be a level limit in PvP, within +/- 10-15 levels, no one wants to deal with the mage who exploited his way to level 50 while the rest of the server is level 12 killing crocs as he continues to bolt his way through newbie zones time and time again.

My point I'm stressing is the server should be fun, and PvP should happen at all times, but it's stupid to confine people into X and Y teams especially on an emulator, and it's even more retarded to make it a FFA grief-fest by allowing level 60 casters to run through Oasis destroying derv camp after derv camp especially considering PvP should cause xp loss.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by vinx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there will always be a way to immy heal w/o FFA
but i do prefer teams and agree FFA sinks fast

I'm pretty sure the 10,000 Sullon Zek players over 10 years would have figured out how to do it if you were correct.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm stating that because they start with 150 str/sta they're going to be the primo choice for tanking in PvE environments thus it will carry over to being the choice for PvP.

It's much easier to play an ogre warrior than say a gnome warrior simply because you get 50% more baseline HP and that is the allure and that is why the majority of the tanking population will be ogre, even on P99 now ogre's and trolls make up the majority of endgame tanks, and I've known only one barbarian during my time here actually tanking in fear.

The non-evil team also has more healing classes than evils in the original post and the PvE content isn't even hard in the first place so it's not even a valid complaint.

It's like the difference in driving a ferrari and toyota to burger king, you're still gonna get there.

I even tanked Innoruk as a ranger on TZVZ box 2.0 at the very beginning of the server. Think it was server first, Heresy might have killed him once before. The PvE complaints are just useless in general.

Originally Posted by Abacab "The REAL truth" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There also has to be a level limit in PvP, within +/- 10-15 levels, no one wants to deal with the mage who exploited his way to level 50 while the rest of the server is level 12 killing crocs as he continues to bolt his way through newbie zones time and time again.

Hell no.

First of all, if someone manages to exploit their way to 50 while everyone is level 10, I'm sure the GM will probably ban them. Secondly, nobody wants to PvP on a server with immortal healers. That's even worse than having more than one IP allowed so everyone drags a healing mule behind them into PvP.

Here's another reason why having a level limit for PvP is absolutely fucking retarded:

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http://www.notaddicted.com/fansythefamous.php