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  #21  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:14 PM
zaneosak zaneosak is offline
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Originally Posted by El-Hefe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
SK and Pally Hybrid penalty means people might actually play Warriors.

People don't get that every little thing that gets changed ripples through the server in big ways, you might think that removing hybrid penalties is a small change that won't hurt anyone. But it'd drastically change the make up of the server and skew it towards being overall less classic.
I don't see this being the case. People should play what they want to play. SK and Pallys tank so much better than warriors for most of the leveling journey , especially when there is no weapons readily available. I'd personally rather have a snap aggro-ing SK in my Lower Guk Frenzy group than a warrior (for example) but I'd take whatever I can get because that's the way it should be. If you're min-maxing your groups based on class, you probably are in a guild or have a group of friends in mind to group with.
  #22  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:17 PM
Vizax_Xaziv Vizax_Xaziv is offline
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Originally Posted by zaneosak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Hello sir. I made this google sheet to hypothetically build groups and see the outcome: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

You can download your own copy of the sheet and play with it yourself if you wish.

I have went ahead and taken your scnerio and built it out real fast -- I used level 17s camping orc highway as an example. Zone and levels of your counterparts have a huge impact on how the XP will distribute, for this example I did not put any other hybrids in it but the main thing you should take away is that if you are ALL THE SAME LEVEL, you will take the same amount of kills to level due to the fact that you need more xp to get your level and they need less, which in turn means you take more xp per mob and they take less. This is the same concept with leveling with higher / lower level people.


Bottom line -- it wont be that bad if you are playing with people around your level. As a Troll Shadowknight though, if you group with people ALOT HIGHER LEVEL than you, then you will start to feel the sting of the penalty alot more than if you stayed with people your level. And much the same concept, your group mates won't see the massive negative effects of grouping with you unless you are 1-2 levels higher than them.

bottom line #2 -- stay within a level of your group mates and you wont feel the effects as badly and neither will they.


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Looking at the graph and a bit weary of its accuracy. It definitely doesn't take 240 mobs to gain a single level in Oasis
  #23  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:25 PM
Vizax_Xaziv Vizax_Xaziv is offline
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Originally Posted by zaneosak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Not sure if you saw my reply above but you will see that you won't ever get negative experience as far as net XP, you will slightly hurt the groups total XP per hour gain by a small amount. For example if you are swapped out with a Warrior Human as a tank, the group will have to kill 30 less mobs (maybe 30-40 minutes of time) to ding. It's not going to be significant enough for people to avoid you.
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Originally Posted by zaneosak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Good thing this tool was created to combat that and show people who are worried about it that the actual real-game examples as it plays out usually amount to what is a +/- hour of game time gained or lost in an average case of grouping. Math nerds who like numbers like myself win and so does everybody else who wants to know the real effects of the system. win-win.
Insignificant for ONE level perhaps, sure! On the other hand not only does that additional time start to add up quickly over multiple levels, it also becomes MORE PRONOUNCED as levels (and therefore the exp required to level) increases. All this while many people are going to be rushing to level up so they can be amongst the first wave of players to hit the high-level camps, meaning they're going to be averse to ANYTHING that will slow them down (to any degree)

What about hell levels? Good luck getting a group invite as a hell-level-45 Troll SK!

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Originally Posted by El-Hefe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
SK and Pally Hybrid penalty means people might actually play Warriors.
People will ALWAYS play Warriors! Not only the are they 100% REQUIRED for any raid content post-classic they're also the single best gear-scaling class in the game and a lot of people find that gear-based progression to be rewarding. Furthering that agenda, they also tend to get defaulted gear-priority anytime a guild moves on to new raid targets! (which obviously attracts people as well)
Last edited by Vizax_Xaziv; 10-03-2019 at 03:31 PM..
  #24  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:30 PM
zaneosak zaneosak is offline
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Originally Posted by Vizax_Xaziv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Looking at the graph and a bit weary of its accuracy. It definitely doesn't take 240 mobs to gain a single level in Oasis
Only way it could be inaccurate is if the ZEM was wrong (they are an estimate that is definitely correct in many zones but not all) Oasis may indeed have an XP bonus of some kind.
  #25  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:33 PM
zaneosak zaneosak is offline
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Originally Posted by Vizax_Xaziv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Insignificant for ONE level perhaps, sure! On the other hand not only does that additional time start to add up quickly over multiple levels, it also becomes MORE PRONOUNCED as levels (and therefore the exp required to level) increases. All this while many people are going to be rushing to level up so they can be amongst the first wave of players to hit the high-level camps, meaning they're going to be averse to ANYTHING that will slow them down (to any degree)

What about hell levels? Good luck getting a group invite as a hell-level-45 Troll SK!
If you are racing to max level, you are going to be soloing or duo-ing and you will already have your leveling path set. If you are going to start waiting for tanks to come along that only meet your criteria, I am sure your XP per minute sitting at a nice ZERO will be great waiting 90 minutes for the perfect non troll non ogre warrior tank to come along.

If you're racing, you're gonna be in a group of mages slaughtering I believe.
  #26  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:34 PM
El-Hefe El-Hefe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaneosak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I don't see this being the case. People should play what they want to play. SK and Pallys tank so much better than warriors for most of the leveling journey , especially when there is no weapons readily available. I'd personally rather have a snap aggro-ing SK in my Lower Guk Frenzy group than a warrior (for example) but I'd take whatever I can get because that's the way it should be. If you're min-maxing your groups based on class, you probably are in a guild or have a group of friends in mind to group with.
SKs and Pallys do tank so much better than Warriors, that’s why it makes sense for them to have a penalty. Otherwise, what’s the point of playing a warrior at all? Yes, people should play what they find fun, but obviously the hybrid penalty will result in some people picking Warrior instead, which is great for a server aiming for a classic feel.
  #27  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:40 PM
El-Hefe El-Hefe is offline
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Originally Posted by Vizax_Xaziv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
People will ALWAYS play Warriors! Not only the are they 100% REQUIRED for any raid content post-classic they're also the single best gear-scaling class in the game and a lot of people find that gear-based progression to be rewarding. Furthering that agenda, they also tend to get defaulted gear-priority anytime a guild moves on to new raid targets! (which obviously attracts people as well)
Raiding is like... 10% of the game.

Compared to other classes, warriors are especially rare on blue.
  #28  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:43 PM
deadlycupcakez deadlycupcakez is offline
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What people forget is that the XP penalty is really FOR THE GROUP and not exclusively the hybrid/int caster/race. That means if hybrids are rolling with a group of buddies and grinding out together for the most of their play time - they will stay the same level as you.

The XP penalties can feel very overwhelming when speculating on pen and paper or when actually soloing (ironically the hybrids, excluding bards, do not have incredible solo capabilities early on). During a group, there is a slight delay to achieving a full level (when grouping with same leveled individuals), but admittedly not a single group mate will be able to tell you how much quicker it would’ve been with a different class in your stead, and will not even notice.

The perception of the slowness (and grass-greener with a different class mindset) will be the only thing they notice if anything.
  #29  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:44 PM
Vizax_Xaziv Vizax_Xaziv is offline
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Originally Posted by El-Hefe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Raiding is like... 10% of the game.

Compared to other classes, warriors are especially rare on blue.
Well I'm just gonna flat-out disagree! If you believe this then I think you'll be very surprised at the number of Warriors you see running around on launch!
  #30  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:46 PM
Deathrydar Deathrydar is offline
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Originally Posted by deadlycupcakez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
but admittedly not a single group mate will be able to tell you how much quicker it would’ve been with a different class in your stead, and will not even notice.
I wish more people understood this!
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