Shaman.. And the Race decisions..

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Wallicker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Having played both a troll and ogre shaman, the difference is night and day. I would choose Ogre hands down, but that’s my opinion and my reasons being that FSI is far more important than regen end game and so is having maximum HP/STA/resists which ogre gets much easier. Ogre has the advantage in a big way during “oh shit” moments, which on a shaman are the only time you will die. If everything goes according to plan it won’t matter.

Bonus: trolls start with -20 FR mod.

You've stated that FSI is "more important end game", but you have failed to substantiate that claim in any meaningful way.
Bonus: trolls get snare.

[Wallicker]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've stated that FSI is "more important end game", but you have failed to substantiate that claim in any meaningful way.
Bonus: trolls get snare.

It’s super easy to position yourself where a mob isn’t going to flee, plus that snare is a 6 second cast for 6 ticks of snare, pretty shitty. Plus most likely your mob will already be rooted...Honestly of the clickies I’d rather have fear undead and animal. Allowing you a quick cast interrupt of these species. Being able to interrupt a CH or nasty spell is a better utility than that shitty snare(think soloing seb crypt) or HS(is drusella flagged undead?)

[Gatorsmash]

Originally Posted by Wallicker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s super easy to position yourself where a mob isn’t going to flee, plus that snare is a 6 second cast for 6 ticks of snare, pretty shitty. Plus most likely your mob will already be rooted...Honestly of the clickies I’d rather have fear undead and animal. Allowing you a quick cast interrupt of these species. Being able to interrupt a CH or nasty spell is a better utility than that shitty snare(think soloing seb crypt) or HS(is drusella flagged undead?)

The snare is amazing and saved my life more time then I can remember camping high end named with those zero room to fight dungeons.

And when it changes to stack with root its magical. You don't realize how important snare is until you don't have it.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Wallicker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s super easy to position yourself where a mob isn’t going to flee, plus that snare is a 6 second cast for 6 ticks of snare, pretty shitty. Plus most likely your mob will already be rooted...Honestly of the clickies I’d rather have fear undead and animal. Allowing you a quick cast interrupt of these species. Being able to interrupt a CH or nasty spell is a better utility than that shitty snare(think soloing seb crypt) or HS(is drusella flagged undead?)

Ya, if all you wanted to do with your shaman is farm seb crypt, CT would prolly be a better religion to pick. It's a non sequitur though, because ogres can't pick CT as a god.

And if you have snare it can often be advantageous to keep mobs a place where they might flee and either let root break or not root them at all. You let them run and then hamless drool while snared at low life. In a way it's like starting the fight with all your enemies immediately losing 10% o their life if used correctly.

If you do want to talk purely about long term "end game", snare will eventually stack with root giving you a buffer to re-root dangerous melee mobs who otherwise would get to tear you up before you could reroot them.

[Berendar]

Originally Posted by Wallicker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s super easy to position yourself where a mob isn’t going to flee, plus that snare is a 6 second cast for 6 ticks of snare, pretty shitty. Plus most likely your mob will already be rooted...Honestly of the clickies I’d rather have fear undead and animal. Allowing you a quick cast interrupt of these species. Being able to interrupt a CH or nasty spell is a better utility than that shitty snare(think soloing seb crypt) or HS(is drusella flagged undead?)

I think 6 ticks would be pretty good and make it worth it but on blue anyway, it's half that or was when I used it.

[Wallicker]

Like I said arguments can be made either way, my opinion having played both is Ogre Shaman and it’s not close. Be nice if that snare wasn’t a 6second cast to only last a few tics. I still personally believe FSI + superior stats far outweigh the benefits of the regen and clickie at end game.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Wallicker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like I said arguments can be made either way, my opinion having played both is Ogre Shaman and it’s not close. Be nice if that snare wasn’t a 6second cast to only last a few tics. I still personally believe FSI + superior stats far outweigh the benefits of the regen and clickie at end game.

I highly doubt you've played a 60 ogre and 60 troll shaman. And i do recall you also think bards shouldn't put their starting stat points into charisma. That personal experience of yours hasn't done much for your EQ acumen, frankly.

6 second cast time isn't terribly relevant if snare is going to be useful for whatever it is you are doing. like I said it can allow you to win a fight while only really having to deal with 85% or so of the HP of a mob. imagine how useful that would be against any spell caster, especially the summoning variety. It also of course will allow you to more efficiently root rot stuff since you will have time reroot before the mob tears into you often times. You can reposition indoor mobs without them tearing you a new asshole on the journey. it makes fear kiting viable paired with other classes as well as aggro kiting. You can use it to split mobs you would otherwise find impossible to do so by strategically rooting the mobs away from the spawn point, then camping immediately after you land the snare on the furthest one away from the camp. You should be able to log back in and get the one you snared.

[Wallicker]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I highly doubt you've played a 60 ogre and 60 troll shaman. And i do recall you also think bards shouldn't put their starting stat points into charisma. That personal experience of yours hasn't done much for your EQ acumen, frankly.

6 second cast time isn't terribly relevant if snare is going to be useful for whatever it is you are doing. like I said it can allow you to win a fight while only really having to deal with 85% or so of the HP of a mob. imagine how useful that would be against any spell caster, especially the summoning variety. It also of course will allow you to more efficiently root rot stuff since you will have time reroot before the mob tears into you often times. You can reposition indoor mobs without them tearing you a new asshole on the journey. it makes fear kiting viable paired with other classes as well as aggro kiting. You can use it to split mobs you would otherwise find impossible to do so by strategically rooting the mobs away from the spawn point, then camping immediately after you land the snare on the furthest one away from the camp. You should be able to log back in and get the one you snared.

Bards shouldn’t put their starting points into charisma lol, and I have leveled 3 bards to 60 solo, duo/trio, full grouped. camping takes 30 seconds plus reload time by then snare is worn off for sure, explain to me how it’s useful for splitting if you said combining it with sky FD clickie I’d bite. Again it’s personal preference but I feel ogre is superior to troll as an endgame shaman. Shaman killing is attrition warfare if you can get a mob down 85% you can do the other 15%. FSI + Greater stats > Regen + long cast short duration snare clickie imho.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Wallicker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bards shouldn’t put their starting points into charisma lol, and I have leveled 3 bards to 60 solo, duo/trio, full grouped. camping takes 30 seconds plus reload time by then snare is worn off for sure, explain to me how it’s useful for splitting if you said combining it with sky FD clickie I’d bite. Again it’s personal preference but I feel ogre is superior to troll as an endgame shaman. Shaman killing is attrition warfare if you can get a mob down 85% you can do the other 15%. FSI + Greater stats > Regen + long cast short duration snare clickie imho.

Yes, I'm well aware of your incredibly bad bard tips on character creation. Anyway, the idea is that the extra tick of snare time will create enough separation between the mobs so when you log back in you can grab the furthest one away from camp without aggroing the others. it's 30 seconds to camp and 36 seconds of snare. You can sometimes do this with just root on a non-troll but you need a much, much larger area to park/stagger the mobs and is usually not viable in dungeons. For trolls it is viable even in dungeons.

And it doesn't sound like you have played a shaman at 60 against high end content. The idea the last 15% of health is meaningless because you managed to get it that low is completely idiotic. It's very easy to start getting a bunch of resists on your slow and easily get fucked over by running out of mana/health shortly thereafter.

[Wallicker]

We will have to agree to disagree on both points, for the bard I’d rather have my 75 extra hp at lvl 50 or 100hp at 60. For shaman I’d rather have FSI and more HP/Mana/20 more FR vs Regen/FSI(I will admit in classic it’s probably a wash, but once torpor is an option I heavily prefer the Ogre).you have your reasons and I have mine, that’s why this game is so great many different ways to play. Glad to have an educated discussion and not just name calling, I think we are wrapped up here. Probably why the poll is split.