OT and You

[Lickum]

Bards appreciate when you root, snare and dispell their mobs, just help them out they have it hard enough.

[Savok]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Had this happen to me in LOIO near the windmill, one high level bard (40+) decimating every spawn in the area between the windmill and goblin fort. Luckily LOIO is massive and its not the end of the world... EQ was built on a sense of community spirit, and 95% of the time I see that here. Just a few bad apples that need to consider their actions a bit more carefully, as always.

There is a difference between swarming for exp and killing an area to spawn a rare mob - learn the difference. If any other level 40 melee toon was doing the same thing then your post would be a non-issue but you posted because he was a bard. Why the fuck would a high end bard need to swarm kite the whole area when you know the couriers spawn table?

Originally Posted by Grizzl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You know what i love about Bards? Its when i, (Ench) have to leave
a group and the only replacement is a Bard. Im not sure if its the
comments of regret, angst, or just plain doomed acceptance I see
from the group that make me feel so good I rolled an Ench instead
of a Bard.

Then your ex group is only finding shitty bards, or your full of yourself. I get plenty of tells to fill out a puller/CC/whatever else needs to be filled spot. Thats the beauty of bards we can fill almost any spot rather than the buff whore you become.


Personally as a 12 year bard vet I think taking all the spawns is a shitty thing to do, maybe thats why I'm only level 37 after 5 months on Savok. If I wanted to solo up I could go play any number of FPS games for the same result. I would rather group.

[Maelstrom]

oh snap!

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[Lazortag]

Not to give any credence to this post, but it makes me wonder about high end bards. Can bards mez as well as chanters in the deep 50s/60s? ...

Yes. Chanters have better CC skills on raids, but a good Bard should CC in exp groups from 28-60 (or at least 28-57 since I'm only 57 now) better than a chanter can.

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

bards cant claim superiority at any other time in their entire career.. they get shit on constantly, and cant really do anything well.. leave them alone to their moment of glory.

This is untrue. Bards are the best pullers for exp groups and arguably the best CC. Their songs also give the best resists in the game on raids. Both manasongs are great too. From 1-50 they're incredibly good at soloing, and actually fun and not boring as hell like most pet classes. I think you meant "rangers", not "Bards", either that or you group with some terrible Bards.

As for kiting all of OT, I've been using OT to PL a friend's bard and my pulls have about 30-40 mobs on average, and even with several other bards in the zone I usually still see tons of mobs on track that I haven't claimed. This is just in the area near the FM zoneline so I could be wrong about how bad OT is for regular exp groups.

edited to be a bit more polite

[Grizzl]

I just want to be clear from my earlier post. I actually do
like Bards. Always happy to see them in a group personally.
However, i was being truthful about the comments i hear
when i as an Ench have to be replaced by a Bard.
(obviously this doesnt pertain to pulling)

That notwithstanding, my comment was mostly aimed
at McBard when he said "dont be angry at people who
picked a better class" and "reroll". etc

All and i mean All classes have their advantages and dis-
advantages and you should play what you want and enjoy.
Dont roll a Bard just cause a few undesirables are not
respecting the game.

[Mcbard]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a good Bard should CC in exp groups from 28-60 (or at least 28-57 since I'm only 57 now) better than a chanter can.

How exactly do you reason this out since chanters have a much better repertoire (multiple stuns, and ae mez) for CCing than bards, and both their me and charm durations last longer? A good enchanter will probably keep a rune up on themselves as well, so theoretically they should be taking less damage.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Mcbard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How exactly do you reason this out since chanters have a much better repertoire (multiple stuns, and ae mez) for CCing than bards, and both their me and charm durations last longer? A good enchanter will probably keep a rune up on themselves as well, so theoretically they should be taking less damage.

Chanters are better in practically fictional situations where you have more than 5 mobs in camp and you might need (a) a mez that lasts longer than 18 seconds or (b) an ae mez. In my groups I usually pull so I can ensure that no such mishaps occur (usually!), so I'm mostly speaking from my own experience, and not addressing situations where the group gets trained by thirty mobs (even in such situations, the chanter is only marginally better and the group will usually wipe). The first reason Bards are better is that they do in fact take less damage - they have more hit points and better mitigation which makes up for rune (assuming the chanter is consistently casting it on themselves). The second reason Bards are better is because their mez is lower aggro, making it far easier to aggro previously mezzed mobs off of a Bard, as well as aggroing currently mezzed mobs off of a Bard when tanks/pets/dot's break mez. This is especially relevant now when taunt won't work for 51+ mobs. The third reason Bards are better is because they can move around while mezzing (this is also another reason why they take less damage). This helps for positioning of mobs, and it means that less mezzes will get interrupted mid-cast. The fourth reason Bards are better is that their mez costs no mana, while a chanter's mez does cost mana. The fifth reason Bards are better is that their charm also costs very little mana (20) and can be used as a memblur for when something has been mezzed for a very long time and would likely aggro the Bard for a while after mez breaks. The sixth reason Bards are better is because they can use charm to simultaneously CC and DPS on pulls with exactly 2 mobs (this is unique to Bards because their charm is lower mana and can be casted while moving, and since it has a shorter duration you don't need to mem invis or get lucky on Hide being successful to break charm - for me it usually breaks just as the mob is at 1-5% hp). The seventh reason Bards are better is because they don't need to stay at the camp and med, so they can both pull and CC, and often they can CC mobs mid-pull which saves the cleric mana. I could probably think of more reasons but I don't want to sound contrived - I think these are the most important ones though.

I play both an enchanter and a Bard (see my sig!). My Bard was already level 50 when our first mez was changed to be PBAE, so I have no idea if Bards are any better at CCing at level 15. But I do know that when Bards get their targeted Mez (level 28), they are better CC in experience groups if they're played well.

[garyogburn]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Chanters are better in practically fictional situations where you have more than 5 mobs in camp and you might need (a) a mez that lasts longer than 18 seconds or (b) an ae mez. In my groups I usually pull so I can ensure that no such mishaps occur (usually!), so I'm mostly speaking from my own experience, and not addressing situations where the group gets trained by thirty mobs (even in such situations, the chanter is only marginally better and the group will usually wipe). The first reason Bards are better is that they do in fact take less damage - they have more hit points and better mitigation which makes up for rune (assuming the chanter is consistently casting it on themselves). The second reason Bards are better is because their mez is lower aggro, making it far easier to aggro previously mezzed mobs off of a Bard, as well as aggroing currently mezzed mobs off of a Bard when tanks/pets/dot's break mez. This is especially relevant now when taunt won't work for 51+ mobs. The third reason Bards are better is because they can move around while mezzing (this is also another reason why they take less damage). This helps for positioning of mobs, and it means that less mezzes will get interrupted mid-cast. The fourth reason Bards are better is that their mez costs no mana, while a chanter's mez does cost mana. The fifth reason Bards are better is that their charm also costs very little mana (20) and can be used as a memblur for when something has been mezzed for a very long time and would likely aggro the Bard for a while after mez breaks. The sixth reason Bards are better is because they can use charm to simultaneously CC and DPS on pulls with exactly 2 mobs (this is unique to Bards because their charm is lower mana and can be casted while moving, and since it has a shorter duration you don't need to mem invis or get lucky on Hide being successful to break charm - for me it usually breaks just as the mob is at 1-5% hp). The seventh reason Bards are better is because they don't need to stay at the camp and med, so they can both pull and CC, and often they can CC mobs mid-pull which saves the cleric mana. I could probably think of more reasons but I don't want to sound contrived - I think these are the most important ones though.

I play both an enchanter and a Bard (see my sig!). My Bard was already level 50 when our first mez was changed to be PBAE, so I have no idea if Bards are any better at CCing at level 15. But I do know that when Bards get their targeted Mez (level 28), they are better CC in experience groups if they're played well.

That was very helpful, thanks. My bard is only 24, but im having fun AEing in loio. I typically dont take more than 5-10 mobs though, as I dont have it perfected yet.

my favorite part about my bard is grouping though. At 23 I pulled/CC for a castle MM group and it was more fun than ive had in a long time in a group.