VP Keys Quests should not be in game

[Phaezed-Reality]

I feel like we need one open raid on trak a week, so people who cant spend 500 hours on getting the keys have a fair shake at it.

[turbosilk]

Originally Posted by Phaezed-Reality [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I feel like we need one open raid on trak a week, so people who cant spend 500 hours on getting the keys have a fair shake at it.

Great idea. Please submit that for vote in the UN.

[Delekhan]

P99 Green is classic in all of the ways that matter. You aren't going to change the fact that human beings play this game and the techniques we use are constantly evolving. This is how it is for all games.

For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ2XWRpfEy8

Super Mario Bros current WR set 1 month ago. ~35 years of game mechanic knowledge has culminated into a full clear in 4:55.430.

[nphixion]

Originally Posted by Delekhan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 Green is classic in all of the ways that matter. You aren't going to change the fact that human beings play this game and the techniques we use are constantly evolving. This is how it is for all games.

For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ2XWRpfEy8

Super Mario Bros current WR set 1 month ago. ~35 years of game mechanic knowledge has culminated into a full clear in 4:55.430.

I personally am not going to change how human beings play but GM’s have a track record of making content changes that uplift the spirit of classic Everquest - which I 100% support. I don’t know what’s classic about having 3+ groups of keys to a dungeon that doesn’t exist yet. it’s clear the experience in classic was far displaced along the classic timeline from being able to kill the dragons - let alone enter the dungeon per the evidence provided in this thread.

[Delekhan]

Originally Posted by nphixion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I personally am not going to change how human beings play but GM’s have a track record of making content changes that uplift the spirit of classic Everquest - which I 100% support. I don’t know what’s classic about having 3+ groups of keys to a dungeon that doesn’t exist yet. it’s clear the experience in classic was far displaced along the classic timeline from being able to kill the dragons - let alone enter the dungeon per the evidence provided in this thread.

Do you have definitive proof that it was impossible to get keys at this phase in the progression? Just because Afterlife figured it out on their own 20 years ago is not proof. That's an entirely different discussion, I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest they artificially modify progression time frames to take into account the lack of game knowledge to simulate the natural discovery phase, which is clearly not the case here. There are hundreds if not thousands of examples where Green is fundamentally different due to players having acquired this knowledge over two decades at the onset.

[nphixion]

Originally Posted by Delekhan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you have definitive proof that it was impossible to get keys at this phase in the progression? Just because Afterlife figured it out on their own 20 years ago is not proof. That's an entirely different discussion, I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest they artificially modify progression time frames to take into account the lack of game knowledge to simulate the natural discovery phase, which is clearly not the case here. There are hundreds if not thousands of examples where Green is fundamentally different due to players having acquired this knowledge over two decades at the onset.

I understand what you’re saying. I don’t really think I need definitive proof. I dont think the GMs needed definitive proof that a person leveled to 60 on the first day of kunark in 2000 using gnoll scrolls. Yet the GMs nerfed gnoll scrolls in green.

The question to ask yourself is: is it okay to amass enough experience prior to kunark to go from 1-60 on day 1 of kunark? If your answer is no, then how is it okay to have keys to a dungeon prior to the dungeon existing?

[nphixion]

(Furthermore I’m having a tough time reconciling the natural discovery phase when there’s currently nothing to discover. It doesn’t exist yet)

[Delekhan]

Originally Posted by nphixion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understand what you’re saying. I don’t really think I need definitive proof. I dont think the GMs needed definitive proof that a person leveled to 60 on the first day of kunark in 2000 using gnoll scrolls. Yet the GMs nerfed gnoll scrolls in green.

The question to ask yourself is: is it okay to amass enough experience prior to kunark to go from 1-60 on day 1 of kunark? If your answer is no, then how is it okay to have keys to a dungeon prior to the dungeon existing?

I don't think that's a fair comparison. They temporarily nerfed it to encourage people to play the game. The whole reason you can do the scroll trick in the first place is that you don't have to pay $10 a month for a subscription. Another fundamental difference. We all got to clear plane of sky before Kunark because we could create mage bot armies, which wasn't possible in classic unless you wanted to pay hundreds of dollars a month.

[Delekhan]

Originally Posted by nphixion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(Furthermore I’m having a tough time reconciling the natural discovery phase when there’s currently nothing to discover. It doesn’t exist yet)

If they knew about the key quest, every afterlife toon would have been keyed on launch.

[Bardp1999]

As someone who has spent hundreds of hours in VP I can safely tell you that you are not missing much. The time and effort is simply not worth it with Velious being just around the corner.

VP was cool on Blue because we were stuck there for 5 years, on Green I just dont see the point outside of the top raiding guild getting free loot 'so why not'.

It also feels very unclassic to be able to get keys to a zone that is not in game yet.