Game Mechanics: Archery Diagnosed!!!

[Snaggles]

Big crits dont mean big dps.

The best bow in the game burning good arrows is the Dagarn with a 2h. Problem is it burns arrows quicker than most fights last.

Even an exquisite though is better than AoW bow. With solid arrows and a 2h that 32/36 scales better. That setup on disc is far better than most decent melee weapon setups and you can dodge some nasty aoe's like Zlexak.

Archery dps isnt great, but its situationally handy. Rangers before AA's weren't snipe gods. Sorry I remember smoking them with my rogue a lot.

I'd love to see you find a way to bump up bow dps...sure, why not!? I just dont think it's a bug, or broken, or pointless.

[Awsten_Tx]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Big crits dont mean big dps.

The best bow in the game burning good arrows is the Dagarn with a 2h. Problem is it burns arrows quicker than most fights last.

Even an exquisite though is better than AoW bow. With solid arrows and a 2h that 32/36 scales better. That setup on disc is far better than most decent melee weapon setups and you can dodge some nasty aoe's like Zlexak.

Archery dps isnt great, but its situationally handy. Rangers before AA's weren't snipe gods. Sorry I remember smoking them with my rogue a lot.

I'd love to see you find a way to bump up bow dps...sure, why not!? I just dont think it's a bug, or broken, or pointless.

I do not believe you have read any of the thread...

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Awsten_Tx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do not believe you have read any of the thread...

Originally Posted by Awsten_Tx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OK tested Damage this morning and it proved my theory wrong, Damage between BFG in primary versus ranged was identical.

Kudos

Therefore that it is not the issue in terms of explaining why archery damage is so abysmal.

It is however apparent that it is throttled.

As an example the Min, Average and Max hit for 23 damage (BFG + Summoned Arrows) on a green con paineel guard was 2, 31.14, and 52 respectively.

This does not include the 42 damage bonus from delay.

But the damage bonus for a melee swing is 11 at 60. It's only 42 if you have a 49 delay 2h equipped and use it as a bow.

So essentially, not only is Archery damage "nerfed" on P99 since double damage, NOR trueshot affect our bonus (which technically doesnt exist unless we bug it with a slow primary 2 hander), but the base archery damage itself is severly throttled for reasons, I cannot seem to diagnose.

As the state of the server stands right now. IF I had someone anchor (non rooted, tanked) that same greeen con paineel guard, using the War Bow of Rallos Zek, I would of done 19,834 damage with 140 shots over the course of 319 seconds, for around 62.2 DPS. That is rather embarassing for a BIS bow, average raid geared ranger. And I am fairly certain the performance on live was far superior.

AOW bow is not BiS. It isnt the best dps, has an aggro proc, and isnt even 200 range

Rangers, literally face a worst case scenario right now in terms of DPS on P99. We face a slew of artificially rooted raid encounters, in addition to throttled archery base damage, AND bugged bonus damage which is not factored into double damage or trueshot.

Assuming you have a good bow kit or BFG, not everyone does. I do...and agree, unroot dragons.

While we should be able to decently compete in a non trueshot fashion with bow DPS, we should also be a viable "delete" option with trueshot that just isnt happening.

Non disc dps wasnt a thing until AA's. I remember it from live. No rangers were plunking lol. I do on p99 now on certain fights like Zlexak. It's easier, about the same dps, and I can hit one button over and over instead of running in/out every 8 seconds.

On short fights on p99 with the BFG it keeps up with nearly BiS monk and rogue weapons. BoW dps is really good too.

As mentioned, great if you can get this thing changed. I dont think it's broken. BOW dps was crap during velious. If it was even a bit better (off disc) than melee we would have seen more people plunking.

I wish I could go back in time and confirm my recollections. Plus tell my former self all sorts of stuff to gamble on to completely change the future.

[feniin]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On short fights on p99 with the BFG it keeps up with nearly BiS monk and rogue weapons. BoW dps is really good too.

As mentioned, great if you can get this thing changed. I dont think it's broken. BOW dps was crap during velious. If it was even a bit better (off disc) than melee we would have seen more people plunking.

I wish I could go back in time and confirm my recollections. Plus tell my former self all sorts of stuff to gamble on to completely change the future.

If rangers in 2001 were getting 1000+ damage crits on Yelinak (a rooted dragon), that means there is an issue with bow damage on rooted dragons on p99 at the very least.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by feniin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If rangers in 2001 were getting 1000+ damage crits on Yelinak (a rooted dragon), that means there is an issue with bow damage on rooted dragons on p99 at the very least.

Sure, if that is true. People were lying on the internet back in 2001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's entirely possible the rooted dynamic didnt play on live like it did here. I'm definitely not against a bit more research. I'm not a ranger hater, I have one with all the toys.

I dont remember many rangers on live raiding during this era and the one that did were meleeing. It's also possible they just were dumb but usually people figure this stuff out if there is a clear imbalance. Not just one person.

[Awsten_Tx]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AOW bow is not BiS. It isnt the best dps, has an aggro proc, and isnt even 200 range

It 100% is, this was the bow to get prior to SoL bows on Live.

[Gustoo]

Archery wasn’t very good till AAs

Here with the messed damage calc it’s probably more powerful than it was on live except on live the range worked correctly and I never missed. With long range bows and arrows I could shoot from past the clip plane. I fletched all my arrows and bow kited up to level 50 and dps was laughably bad but I was a coward and liked to stay full HP for pvp when it occurred so I did a lot of bow kiting.

So I remember the lack of missed and the functional long range but never noted the damage output because it sucked. Obviously level 60 with disc and better bows is better but no where near a real weapon.

[Awsten_Tx]

I am kind of curious if my original theory, that P99 camage calculation, isnt pulling archery skill. And we just have no way to test it.

[7thGate]

I believe I have seen a 900+ Trueshot crit with Windstriker, but not 1000+. Also, that needs the double damage bonus from a non-rooted target, which I don't think we get here, so wouldn't apply to Yelinak.

Archery is good for certain fights. It compares better if most of your force is not BIS geared since an Exquisite Vellium bow is like 93% of BIS ranged damage but a cheap melee pairing is not 93% of BIS melee damage. If there are fight mechanics that disrupt DPS that can be avoided by range, and the fight is short enough that Trueshot covers it, it can be top tier DPS.

https://wiki.project1999.com/File:Ranger_bazzt_zzzt.png for example is a Queen Bee parse where the tank died. Melee DPS got disrupted hard by her stupid hitbox and flying around killing people, Ranger DPS was basically unaffected.

Can also be good on Gorenaire, where its a little worse than Wizards but still about as good as a Druid or Zlexak. Not bad on other non-rooted dragons just dodging fear, but not as noticeable as the slow AOE ones. I would assume probably good on Hoshkar and other VP dragons but have no VP experience.

[Jimjam]

Archery is mainly good cos u can do it while bandaging.