Paladin: 95 CHA in seb as puller, no issue at 60

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Level > everything else...and you're doing ABC at 60. If you were 55 it would be an entirely different story.

Now go do King or Juggs with that group and report back on your lull success rate.

This.

ABC is child’s play. Wis/int/sta are easy to raise in velious. Paci classes should go CHA.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This.

ABC is child’s play. Wis/int/sta are easy to raise in velious. Paci classes should go CHA.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Kobold_Jester%27s_Crown
https://wiki.project1999.com/Crude_Stein
https://wiki.project1999.com/Matchless_Dragonskin_Mask
https://wiki.project1999.com/Cat_Eye_Velium_Necklace
https://wiki.project1999.com/Seahorse_Spine_Bracelet
https://wiki.project1999.com/Froststone_Stein
https://wiki.project1999.com/Luminary_Two_Handed_Sword

That's +119 CHA from some very easily and cheaply acquired items, and doesn't even include rings or earrings, which could also add even more. There is zero universe in which STA or WIS are that trivial to raise and at such minimal expense.

As the OP's post illustrates, CHA is literally only good when you're using Lull in extremely risky circumstances, because on normal blue XP mobs 1) you will very rarely crit fail to begin with, and 2) when you do so, you can usually recover quite easily with your own toolkit and the presumed aid of your groupmates. Maxing CHA on a Paladin basically only makes sense if you're doing something unusual like leveling solo in particularly dangerous dungeons for the sheer thrill and challenge of it. But this is not how most people play the class, and at 60 a Paladin (who will presumably be running around doing group and raid content at that point) gains almost nothing from CHA.

And for the vanishingly small number of times you do need as much CHA as you can get for some absurdly dangerous pull? Carry a bag full of those items above, which by themselves will take even an ugly Dwarf to over 160 CHA.

[Pint]

Pretty sure I alrdy told y'all cha was for enchanters

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Kobold_Jester%27s_Crown
https://wiki.project1999.com/Crude_Stein
https://wiki.project1999.com/Matchless_Dragonskin_Mask
https://wiki.project1999.com/Cat_Eye_Velium_Necklace
https://wiki.project1999.com/Seahorse_Spine_Bracelet
https://wiki.project1999.com/Froststone_Stein
https://wiki.project1999.com/Luminary_Two_Handed_Sword

That's +119 CHA from some very easily and cheaply acquired items, and doesn't even include rings or earrings, which could also add even more. There is zero universe in which STA or WIS are that trivial to raise and at such minimal expense.
As the OP's post illustrates, CHA is literally only good when you're using Lull in extremely risky circumstances, because on normal blue XP mobs 1) you will very rarely crit fail to begin with, and 2) when you do so, you can usually recover quite easily with your own toolkit and the presumed aid of your groupmates. Maxing CHA on a Paladin basically only makes sense if you're doing something unusual like leveling solo in particularly dangerous dungeons for the sheer thrill and challenge of it. But this is not how most people play the class, and at 60 a Paladin (who will presumably be running around doing group and raid content at that point) gains almost nothing from CHA.

And for the vanishingly small number of times you do need as much CHA as you can get for some absurdly dangerous pull? Carry a bag full of those items above, which by themselves will take even an ugly Dwarf to over 160 CHA.

Dwarves cap stamina pretty easily in velious.

This leaves cha(hardest stat to raise) or wis(diminishing returns 200+).

I’ll take better crit chances than maybe one extra hot in which case you’re probably already dead. But ymmv. Also gear swaps are hella annoying. The less the better. And you know you’re not gonna swap every time. And you’re gonna get crits. And you’re gonna take more hits/deaths.

Also not sure why this is a solo artist thing. So many low man uses for paci. It’s that fucking good.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dwarves cap stamina pretty easily in velious.

This leaves cha(hardest stat to raise) or wis(diminishing returns 200+).

I’ll take better crit chances than maybe one extra hot in which case you’re probably already dead. But ymmv. Also gear swaps are hella annoying. The less the better. And you know you’re not gonna swap every time. And you’re gonna get crits. And you’re gonna take more hits/deaths.

Also not sure why this is a solo artist thing. So many low man uses for paci. It’s that fucking good.

It's exceedingly rare to die from a crit fail unless you're doing some wacky and risky solo stuff. That's just a fact. You're a goddamned plate wearing tank who can root, heal yourself, Lay on Hands and cast DA for God's sake. How the in hell are you guys dying from crit fails? Further, in most cases you'll only need to cast lull/paci when first breaking a camp before the spawns are staggered and can be easily single pulled. It's not like you're casting it constantly. Hell, in most cases you probably won't even be pulling to begin with, and this entire argument is completely academic on a server where you can't throw a rock without hitting a Monk or an Enchanter. STA or WIS are both much better investments than CHA.

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

theres a few bad paladins that didnt max cha at creation that are a little upset here

Rastafire Soulfari
55 Paladin
Human - Rodcet Nife
STR 186
STA 166
AGI 91
DEX 133
WIS 115
INT 102
CHA 119

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Snaggles]

Most solo level 55's arent killing level 45-52's in seb. They are killing low 40's mobs in HK and what-not. So the lull difference is basically the same. Only like a level 30 hunting in the Unrest basement is a bit more dodgy...

A.) Where are you gonna run?
B.) That's a LOT of npcs not far from your level

My point wasnt that 95 CHA is all you need or that I would roll through jugs without issues. So whether I didnt make that clear or it's a Strawman (fun!), good point. Just that my literal experience at 60 in ABC killing blues was a snooze fest. I wish I was 55 because the enchanter would have had more to do.

In most groups a Pally with a few pieces of CHA gear can lull in a pinch. At level 55 they get divine aura on a 15 minute cooldown. Worst case you DA as the ench has a couple ticks by the time you are in camp to figure out what to do. Or people start rooting the melee ncs.

As I've said I literally carry all the CHA tryhard stuff. I can get to about 220 self-buffed and near cap with even Overwhelming Splendor. It's just an arthritic amount of clicking for very little benefit. Past about 150CHA unless you're an ench doing chardok things. In which case...cool. But that's not a pally discussion.

In the end if you have a pally or anyone who wants to pull, just let them. Try to not be a bad and it will work out.

Originally Posted by Philistine [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for sharing Snaggles! I went STA on my baby Pal and after reading sooo many threads about CHA I'd genuinely wondered if I goofed.

No problem! My Erudite put 20 points into STR and I barely cap with decent raid drops. I've also tanked quite a few tough targets. More than I thought I would (never thought I'd even raid again)

[Toxigen]

theres a few bad paladins that didnt max cha at creation that are a little upset here

[jolanar]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[mattydef]

You only put points into CHA for the lullz

[Snaggles]

This all falls into the Velious trap. The “you will cap every stat” lie. Sure with a few Vulak and Doz slots you will bulk up but true combat stats will only with Avatar. Before the proc agility and dexterity won’t be. Wisdom isn’t effected by that but even at diminishing returns after 205 will give about 6 mana/1pt of Wisdom instead of 11. Even if you overcap Stamina running around with more hps unbuffed isn’t a bad thing. It’s less buffs you need and more slots free (plus it’s one less ask assuming you have a buffer around).

Let’s be real though, most people will never get near this loot. Not.even.close. These people have to pick their downfall and as one of them I rarely worry about my charisma. Top slot root and get good.