Warrior Dex Gear Suggestions Needed

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Drueric [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anecdotally, thats not what I see happening. Procs from what I have seen are pretty random, with dex being a factor. Haste also seems to make a difference, negatively.

I think a dex warrior will be much more useful if you dont wear a haste item. Try it and see. Slower weapon delay from what I see, makes your weapons proc more often.

That formula on the wiki is just someones best guess as to how procs work, and I think its inaccurate.

My haste theory is just a theory, I would say I have not tested using good haste items vs not, since I dont have one, but I have a low end haste item and been buffed with haste to see a comparison. My dex warrior also isnt capped out. But I dont think that matters for testing the theory, but even the wiki suggests weapon delay is a factor.

Test it. Hit a mob once, then back off (root it or let someone else tank it). After waiting awhile, hit it again: your chance of proccing will be much higher.

[kjs86z2]

its why shammies / enchanters slow themselves before OT hammer

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

its why shammies / enchanters slow themselves before OT hammer

Confirmed. Here's the setup for proccing OT hammer as a shaman.

1) Cast Mortal Deftness on Self (150 mana)
2) Cast Focus of Spirit on Self (500 mana)
3) Cast Turgur's insects on self (250 mana)
4) Cast Torpor on self (200 mana)

Yeah, it costs 1100 mana , but I proc OT hammer first swing like 80% of the time.

[Goregasmic]

I slow myself and remove haste so I'll proc early more often than not but each hammer swing takes like what, 9 seconds? If you don't proc on first swing it becomes a slog. You have more chances per swing to proc on hard mobs you want to joust anyway but if you ain't swingin' you aint proccin'... so on harmless trash I'm not sure it is worth slowing/unhasting.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Drueric [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anecdotally, thats not what I see happening. Procs from what I have seen are pretty random, with dex being a factor. Haste also seems to make a difference, negatively.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Test it. Hit a mob once, then back off (root it or let someone else tank it). After waiting awhile, hit it again: your chance of proccing will be much higher.

The issue with both of these is that anecdotal observations aren't going to be very accurate. I'd guess you'd want at least 1000 procs to get results of any significance, and since procs are on the order of 1 or 2 per minute, that's gonna be hours of parsing.

Say you're at max dex and do a half hour of testing with and without haste. You should expect about 60 procs. If you get something like 61 hasted and 65 unhasted you really can't draw any conclusions from that. But if you did 500 hours of testing per side and got 61000 and 65000, then you could probably draw some conclusions.

The human mind being what it is, we naturally emphasize observations that support our pre-existing theories while discarding others that don't support it. For example, any fight where you don't get the proc you were hoping for is going to stick out, while the fight with three back-to-back procs might not be very memorable.

[Snaggles]

All procs are PPM. Procs per minute. Slow swings = higher proc chance per cycle. Fast weapons = less chance per cycle. No weapons proc more or less per minute. It’s only really a thing if you can joust the npc but that’s more solo and duel stuff, and only if you are turning off attack and cycling it back on. Slowing/torping yourself is ideal if trying for a one or two swing proc like off a Stalking Probe. I unequip haste and equip my Earthshaker if I want to save arrows proccing my Primal bow.

Self-cast proc spells like Divine Might, Call of Fire, Shroud of Death trigger substantially more often than weapons.

The reason why this is bad gearing advice is dps proc weapons by and large are mariginal outside a select few. For the warrior the Gaudralek for example. Even blood points are rather garbage ratio compared to a Reaver but who expected them to keep up with city leader Velious gear?

Dex will affect crits/crips but again, very little compared to just gearing to take hits. Unless you are comparing like a Silver Disk to Aary neck, or White Dragon helm vs KT Crown and have BiS aggro weapons I wouldn’t bother yourself much.

If you are trying to keep aggro off a shaman that’s easy: Pull with slow or have them wait for a few swings before they cast. Or let the warrior aggro two, root one, then slow stuff. Get a 2h and just chop up the world.

[Drueric]

Yes the wiki says its procs per minute, but again thats just someones theory put on a wiki, its not pulled out of code. I think whats really happening is a random % chance, affected by dex and weapon delay.(And to be honest, Im not even sure dex actually is a factor. People assume it, but its kinda hard to tell.) If you parsed 1000 attacks, all you would be seeing is the law of averages, not a set number of procs per minute, and ppm doesnt hold true in practice.

For example, I have gotten like 8 procs in 30 seconds before, and also zero procs for at least a minute. Procs per minute doesnt explain that, but random chance does.

I havent seen anyone else mention this, or suggest it, but I duel wield 2 deadwood staves, without my haste item and I get more procs that way, and I can solo way easier doing that. Ive also tried 1 dws paired with shimmering partisan for the +20 dex. But I get more procs if I dual wield them. They are 28 delay, so technically should produce more procs than 2 blood points. Im not saying dws are better weapons than bp, just that they should proc more, and I dont have 2 bp to test it.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Drueric [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes the wiki says its procs per minute, but again thats just someones theory put on a wiki, its not pulled out of code. I think whats really happening is a random % chance, affected by dex and weapon delay. If you parsed 1000 attacks, all you would be seeing is the law of averages, not a set number of procs per minute, but that doesnt hold true in practice.

For example, I have gotten like 8 procs in 30 seconds before, and also zero procs for at least a minute. Procs per minute doesnt explain that, but random chance does.

If the game thinks you'll swing 50 times next minute and your dex gives you 1 proc per minute it will set your proc rate at 2% (or something among those lines). It doesn't make it impossible to proc 5 times in a row or 0 in 3 minutes. If it thinks you'll swing 10 times it will set proc rate at 10%, making you feel like it procs more.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Drueric [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes the wiki says its procs per minute, but again thats just someones theory put on a wiki, its not pulled out of code. I think whats really happening is a random % chance, affected by dex and weapon delay.(And to be honest, Im not even sure dex actually is a factor. People assume it, but its kinda hard to tell.) If you parsed 1000 attacks, all you would be seeing is the law of averages, not a set number of procs per minute, and ppm doesnt hold true in practice.

For example, I have gotten like 8 procs in 30 seconds before, and also zero procs for at least a minute. Procs per minute doesnt explain that, but random chance does.

I havent seen anyone else mention this, or suggest it, but I duel wield 2 deadwood staves, without my haste item and I get more procs that way, and I can solo way easier doing that. Ive also tried 1 dws paired with shimmering partisan for the +20 dex. But I get more procs if I dual wield them. They are 28 delay, so technically should produce more procs than 2 blood points. Im not saying dws are better weapons than bp, just that they should proc more, and I dont have 2 bp to test it.

PPM can easily be tested but it’s so obviously a thing nobody has.

Torp shaman self-slow has like a 70% first swing proc with an Overthere hammer, I’ve not procced before on the second but it’s VERY rare. A bag of stalking probes can go a long time before recharging.

Taking off haste and equipping an Earthshaker makes each bow shot much more likely to proc. This is the basis around ranger racing for Sev and some other targets with a Windstriker. I don’t have a Windstriker but have done 8 Avatar procs before in like 20 shots. That’s some crazy luck if so.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Drueric [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes the wiki says its procs per minute, but again thats just someones theory put on a wiki, its not pulled out of code. I think whats really happening is a random % chance, affected by dex and weapon delay.(And to be honest, Im not even sure dex actually is a factor. People assume it, but its kinda hard to tell.) If you parsed 1000 attacks, all you would be seeing is the law of averages, not a set number of procs per minute, and ppm doesnt hold true in practice.

For example, I have gotten like 8 procs in 30 seconds before, and also zero procs for at least a minute. Procs per minute doesnt explain that, but random chance does.

I havent seen anyone else mention this, or suggest it, but I duel wield 2 deadwood staves, without my haste item and I get more procs that way, and I can solo way easier doing that. Ive also tried 1 dws paired with shimmering partisan for the +20 dex. But I get more procs if I dual wield them. They are 28 delay, so technically should produce more procs than 2 blood points. Im not saying dws are better weapons than bp, just that they should proc more, and I dont have 2 bp to test it.

More than just a theory: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=357532

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rogean: Rewrote the Proc Chance formula to more accurately take attack speed into account, to achieve 2 Procs Per Minute given max Dexterity and regardless of attack speed. Dexterity still has a large affect on proc chance. In most cases, this has resulted in a slight increase in chance to proc.

In other words, procs work independently of weapon speed. Everything gets calculated on an expected goal of 2 procs per minute at 255 dex. Lower dex will have a lower total expected procs per minute. Naturally, the fewer swings per minute (higher delay, no haste, slow) means you're more likely to proc on each swing, but it should still average out to max 2 procs per minute.