Shaere plays DnD!

[Mardur]

dnd is most fun when the dm makes shit up as he goes, cheats die rolls, etc.

[vageta31]

Originally Posted by Ektar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I once made a halfling rogue in 3rd edition that did 1 damage per thrown dagger, but would have 6 or 7 (maybe 8) attacks per round and would have +3d6 (and eventually 4, 5, etc.) sneak attack on each throw. His hide bonus was also insane (level +3, +4 halfling (or was it 6), +1 size, maybe some synergy and I got myself some + items), so he would never fail a hide check even in the middle of battle. Once I was finally of level (needed to be like level 7 or around there) for the class combos to come to fruition, the dm pulls out this obscure book and goes oh btw you only get sneak attack on your first attack of a round. I was pissed since I scoured the player's handbook for that exact rule and it was not there. I stopped playing him after that :P

It's not that you only get sneak attack on first round, its that the mob has to be flat-footed. Meaning you win initiative and the enemy hasn't gotten an action yet, or they are flanked. So DM is correct you only get it on first round though his explanation was a weak one. That rule is in the original players handbook. And you can't flank an opponent with a ranged attack so the only way to get your sneak attack is if you win initiative for the first round or your melee pals are flanking a mob.

You think EQ is horribly imbalanced.. try balancing DnD with all of the hundreds of combinations of race/class/feats/items etc.. Thrown attacks are known to be some of the weakest simply because at high levels you can't get past the DR of most high level mobs not to mention running out of daggers very quickly. In DnD wizards, druids and clerics are king of the crop.

[Ektar]

no, the new book said "only first attack of a round" I'm almost certain.

an enemy is flatfooted at first, and after each time I hide. Sacrificing a round to hide (if I failed the -20 free action) was worth it. So every other round every attack did sneak attack according to the PH, but not with this book added in (whatever it was)

[Frieza_Prexus]

Under 3.0 and 3.5 rules all attacks can be sneak attacks provided they meet certain prerequisites (I.E. Flat footed or flanked enemy). In fact, if you go here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040302a you'll find this little gem:

Provided it is possible for you to make a sneak attack at all, you can make multiple sneak attacks when you use the full attack action. For example, if you have a higher initiative result at the beginning of an encounter, your foe is flat-footed and every attack you make is a sneak attack. The same is true if you flank your foe.

This is what makes two-weapon fighting rogues very dangerous if they get a sneak attack set up.

If he was running a 3.0 or 3.5 game, that DM was either reading the rules wrong, or was just making it up.

[Ektar]

it was just a lesson: never deviate from paladin

[Diggles]

paladin-rogue-wizard would be the best class

dual wield fireballs of life

[vageta31]

The problem with rogues in DnD is to do your full damage you must get a full attack action in order to use your offhand attack. In DnD you cannot move and then do a full attack action in the same round so you must already be in range to do so. There are ways around this limitation but require a high degree of optimization.

There's also one very big glaring flaw in sneak attack. It won't work on anything undead or without "discernible anatomy". So same goes for golemns, oozes, etc.. If it's an undead heavy campaign your rogue is fuxx0red. There are a few weapons and feats that can work around this but it all depends on if your DM gives access to them.

The biggest limitation in DnD is what your DM will allow. There are tons of books out there but some DMs won't allow you to use them. If you're stuck with just the players handbook then you can't go wrong with a Druid. They get an animal companion that is as strong as a fighter, and by level 5 they can wildshape into animals and gain their physical stats. Druids in DnD aren't like the wusses in EQ, these guys are mean sobs and have more hit dice than rogues.

[Tarathiel]

awesome thread i love dnd, too bad i always had to be a DM and never got to be a player, in any case ive always allowed rogues to use sneak attack bonus's whenever they applied not just on the first attack, i play 3.0 with a few 3.5 rules thrown in there and this is how ive always interpreted the rule

[vageta31]

Ektar is lucky his DM was generous on hide as well. Unless you have a class or template with "hide in plain sight", then you can't hide during a battle unless there is some sort of cover. It's not like evade in EQ where you can just do it in the middle of a fight. And if you're moving to cover then you lose your full attack action. Best option is to just get a big dumb fighter to flank with you while you get sneak attacks with two weapon fighting.

Funny enough DnD mirrors EQ closely on the melee vs caster power gap. Paladins, fighters and the like are considered the weakest classes even if you know what you're doing. Wizards and Druids can break the entire campaign into little pieces with their higher level spells. Things like wish are just ludicrously powerful and should have never been allowed. Not to mention a Druid wildshaping into a T-Rex or Triceratops and roflstomping every encounter while your fighter watches in disgust.

[vageta31]

Originally Posted by Tarathiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

awesome thread i love dnd, too bad i always had to be a DM and never got to be a player, in any case ive always allowed rogues to use sneak attack bonus's whenever they applied not just on the first attack, i play 3.0 with a few 3.5 rules thrown in there and this is how ive always interpreted the rule

Ya the keyword is flat-footed. Anytime an opponent is flat footed sneak attack applies. First round attack by winning initiative and flanking are the two easiest ways. There are also spells that can help as well. If you have a smart wizard buddy that can cast grease on your opponents that also helps. Even a smart rogue can carry a bag of marbles and use them on an opponent and since most creatures have a horrible balance skill check they will be flat footed.

My Rogue died a few months back to a Wight. I tried a different class that my DM absolutely hated so he allowed me to bring my character back in. I got raised from the dead by an evil god and now have a custom half-undead template. He also let me switch classes and now I'm playing a swordsage which is one of the more powerful melee classes. I actually have to hold back a lot so I don't trivialize some of the encounters. The other players don't read much so don't optimize while I scoured the books for months picking up every little trick I could find hehe.