Abacab on play nice policy

[Agaron]

Training has always been part of the game, and never bannable. GM intervention is pretty lame on this server, especially if enforcing rules is picked and chosen based on personal interest. GM petitions should be strictly used for cheating, exploiting, and fixing mechanical issues. They made ignore list for a reason, and there's a thing called reputation. Live with it.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Agaron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GM intervention is pretty lame on this server, especially if enforcing rules is picked and chosen based on personal interest.

lolwut?

[Agaron]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lolwut?

Read.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Agaron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Read.

I did. Your post was nonsensical at best. Unless of course you were accusing GMs of favoritism, gj.

[Abacabb]

Originally Posted by Leokaiser [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Relying on a disparate and vast community to police itself might work in some cases, but I would argue that stricter rules and harsher punishments enforced by a small set of GMs united in purpose is more likely to have a greater impact.

Cause that works IRL doesn't it? I should totally make a traffic violation warrant 4 years in prison just so people don't speed around the exit ramp. That shit never works, the more you enforce and the harsher the penalties are the less freedom of choice the community has.

Do you want to walk down the road where every contestable encounter has a GM there to decide who gets it? Do you really want your hand to be held that way? It might work for you if you're some sort of socialist, pro-community, everyone-gets-something carebear, but this is a competitive video game and that does not work for the majority.

[Phallax]

Originally Posted by Abacabb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cause that works IRL doesn't it? I should totally make a traffic violation warrant 4 years in prison just so people don't speed around the exit ramp. That shit never works, the more you enforce and the harsher the penalties are the less freedom of choice the community has.

Do you want to walk down the road where every contestable encounter has a GM there to decide who gets it? Do you really want your hand to be held that way? It might work for you if you're some sort of socialist, pro-community, everyone-gets-something carebear, but this is a competitive video game and that does not work for the majority.

Dont compare RL to video games then contradict yourself by saying "but this is a video game". You sir fail.

And no this is a video game, it doesnt follow the same rule set as IRL. GMs can and will hand out more harsh punishments for lesser crimes to prove a point, especially to repeating offenders.

[Abacabb]

Originally Posted by Phallax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dont compare RL to video games then contradict yourself by saying "but this is a video game". You sir fail.

And no this is a video game, it doesnt follow the same rule set as IRL. GMs can and will hand out more harsh punishments for lesser crimes to prove a point, especially to repeating offenders.

I'm using examples, I'm sorry if they are bad examples because obviously you losing a camp in lguk is no where near the level of atrocity as say a government ethnically cleansing but I'm making a point with the idea behind it all.

Enforcement never works when it's main purpose isn't to keep the game legit, but to police the players based on their free will of action, that's very non-John Locke of you. As players on the server we should hold the accountability and we shouldn't cry GM every time something doesn't benefit us.

Currently NO GM likes to hold your hand, or sit 8+ hours in a raid zone watching you, so why do you consistently force them to do this by clogging up their petition system? Why do you have to be a crybaby the moment someone completely steamrolls you out of malice? If you don't like the brutality and selfishness that manifests itself in a game that obviously has some serious competitive qualities to it, then go play minesweeper and content with yourself.

[Branaddar]

Just because you never petitioned when someone was stealing your camp, doesn't mean nobody else did.

I answered 5-10 petitions a day that were camp/raid disputes.

The idea of a community blackballing a jerk works well if they're not self-sufficient and/or in a guild full of people who are either equally jerk-like or don't care about outsider opinions of their members.

We could always run an experiment and have a "no holds barred" week or two on the server and see how well this "I shun you!" thing works when you're being steamrolled and KSed.

Better yet, when you attribute a puller's actions to their entire group and start blackballing a cleric that has no idea their pullers is taking mobs from someone else's camp.

Sure, more people will have a fair shot at things that are currently over-camped, but I'm willing to bet you there will be constant trains. Even WITH the threat of warnings/suspensions/bans, people continued to train. Do you think they'll show as much restraint if the GM staff says "okay, all mobs are fair game now, we won't intervene anymore."?

[Leokaiser]

I have indeed heard of people being banned from Live for deiberately, repeatedly causing trains on PvE servers; it's griefing, pure and simple. As stated before, the implementation of the rules may have varied from server to server (and indeed from GM to GM) but the rules themselves did not. From the EverQuest Rules of Conduct 1.1 - Play Nice Policies:

5. You may not harass others.

Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. As harassment can take many forms, the EQCSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not a "reasonable person" would feel harassed and act accordingly.

6. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.

Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

...

o Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.).

From Gordon Wrinn via loreseekers.com

EverQuest is a Multiplayer game, and as such, people have to interact with other people. The focus of these rules will be to form some guidelines for these interactions, and provide the GMs and Guides a course of action in the event that some people purposely attempt to reduce the amount of fun that another person can have.

...

I think that the rules ... will result in more short-term intervention by the GM/Guide staff, but will empower people to solve their own problems in the long run.

The above was a message delivered to the community regarding killstealking and camps in particular, but I think the message applies to all instances where someone is being a jerk.

Further to this, I wouldn't mind seeing this particular part of the EQ Play nice policy brought over to p1999:

Spawns in the game can no longer be claimed or controlled by a single player or group. Wether it is a single or multiple spawn, for an item or for XP, low or high level, all groups wishing to camp a spawn must
work out some type of rotation or means to share the spawn.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Bartella

Further to this, I wouldn't mind seeing this particular part of the EQ Play nice policy brought over to p1999:

Quote:
Spawns in the game can no longer be claimed or controlled by a single player or group. Wether it is a single or multiple spawn, for an item or for XP, low or high level, all groups wishing to camp a spawn must
work out some type of rotation or means to share the spawn.

Think about some uber item you want as a druid. Something you've been dying to get your hands on. I dunno what druids want, so just pick something. Now imagine you've been finally invited into a camp where the mob that drops it spawns. Placeholder after placeholder spawns. Finally the named spawns. It doesn't drop it. So you wait again. More placeholders. The named spawns again after hours. It drops the item. You lose the /random on it and the cleric gets the nifty +10 WIS item or whatever it is. Cleric loots and scoots, you try main-healing for a while but it's not enough to keep everyone alive. You wipe and have to CR. Can't find another cleric to replace, so you log for the night. Three nights later, you finally get invited to that camp again. More placeholders to kill. Named spawns, item doesn't drop.

Then, another group comes in and wants your camp. The part you wish to bring over to P1999 states you now have to share that camp/spawn with the other group. So you're forced to work out a rotation. They kill half the spawns in the camp, you kill the other half. Alternate killing nameds. Now the named spawns again. Drops the item, but it wasn't your group's turn. More hours and hours of placeholders, named spawns... doesn't drop the item on your group's turn. Your group gets pissed at having to share and most of them leave. You no longer have a group capable of clearing the mobs. Other group moves in because they can.

etc etc etc over and over again.

Are you REALLY sure you'd like that part of the PNP to come over to P1999 with the limited content we're all already trying to share? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]