sk starting points

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Negative.

I have always posted parses. You have simply never trusted them because the raw logs and "video evidence" you demand wasn't provided. I don't video any shit for myself or anyone and I won't start because one obtuse internet persona demands it.

Why would I lie lol?

Very rarely do you post any evidence. The majority of your last few hundred posts have been silly gifs and nonsense.

I hope you continue posting evidence. You are making progress by posting that log!

I am not calling you a liar. I simply understand that computer programs can have bugs in them, and human error can occur when using said computer programs.

When you post the logs, you give everybody the same data set. They can use whichever parser they want, and we can check to see if someone did the parse wrong. Making a mistake on the parse does not mean someone did it intentionally. But if the data is wrong, we need to know.

You should know how this works as a doctor. My video evidence is much more concrete than you simply posting summary text. My videos show you exactly what I am doing, and how I am doing it. It also allows you to cross reference the logs I provide, to make sure they have not been tampered with. You can use the logs I provide to do you own parsing, in case you think I got something incorrect.

Everybody wins when you post the logs. It's even better when you post videos, because we will have a better understanding of how the logs were generated.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your fatally flawed parses showed a whopping (ie its not anywhere close to insignificant) 4.3% dmg improvement with 20 str on a level 5 turtle when you are level 60. 4.3% more full time, static, always there dps is way beyond what any theorycrafted and cherry picked random "what if" scenario implying 20 more intelligence is better could ever hope or dream to accomplish.
.

As usual, you simply claim all evidence is invalid, because it doesn't support your opinion lol. This is just sad. Please get better at admitting you are wrong, or provide evidence that shows why you think my evidence is invalid.

You still haven't show why you think the DPS increase is a percentage instead of a raw number, and you still haven't actually shown how many additional kills per hour this small DPS bonus would net you. I'll help you out. If the DPS improvement is 1, then you will get 3600 damage per hour, assuming you autoattack non-stop. Realistically you are going to be getting much less than that, because you are going to be taking breaks, pulling, etc. You are probably getting 1-2 additional kills per hour, maybe. This is not going to improve your leveling process enough to sacrifice your starting stats in the long term. INT is the better choice.

[Troxx]

My prediction is that DSM will now revert to his well known habits of quoting himself and his previous posts and napkin math to somehow "prove" that he is right without directly addressing any discussion. It is his modus operandi when backed into a corner.

Wait for it ...

He WILL do it ...

Lulz will commence when my prediction becomes reality.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should know how this works as a doctor.

Lol ...

[Jimjam]

Rip thanks for posting your Magelo, thats a well geared toon with a nice balance of stats rather than one which just spams one particular philosophy. It’s really interesting to see how everything is just scraping cap with buffs.

I think it does indicate the caution of following minmax advice when not using the supposed min max race option (dump int as str/sta cap easily).

I think most would agree that when doing self found or very lightly twinked (ie just a weapon and haste) characters for the sake of levelling up another alt rather than having a 60 toon to play str is by far the best option. However you’ve managed to demonstrate that for twink or bis putting points into melee stats when not playing a giant race isn’t necessarily going to be quite so wasteful as the community previously believed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rip thanks for posting your Magelo, thats a well geared toon with a nice balance of stats rather than one which just spams one particular philosophy. It’s really interesting to see how everything is just scraping cap with buffs.

I think it does indicate the caution of following minmax advice when not using the supposed min max race option (dump int as str/sta cap easily).

I think most would agree that when doing self found or very lightly twinked (ie just a weapon and haste) characters for the sake of levelling up another alt rather than having a 60 toon to play str is by far the best option. However you’ve managed to demonstrate that for twink or bis putting points into melee stats when not playing a giant race isn’t necessarily going to be quite so wasteful as the community previously believed.

Statistically speaking STR and STA are easier to cap with BiS gear in Velious. If you don't believe me, you can simply look at https://wiki.project1999.com/Categor...ight_Equipment and check the stat distributions across the items. You can see my example Magelo here: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:EruditeSKMan . STR is also easy to cap with buffs, long before full BiS gear, as you can get +235 STR from Avatar + Focus of Spirit + Maniacal Strength.

Ripqozko's Magelo (which is awesome btw) simply shows what I assume everybody already knows:

There are thousands of possible equipment combinations for each class.

You can find builds that cap any stat long before full BiS gear. That doesn't prove anything, especially since many of those builds would be considered to be objectively bad for the class using them. It doesn't change the statistical distribution of stats on gear. P99 is a locked server, so we are not going to get new items that can change the statistical distributions.

As far as I am aware, most players do not pre-plan out which BiS (or near BiS) gear they are going to get. This happens organically. That means when creating a new character, you want to put your points into the statistically hardest stat to cap for a Shadowknight, which is INT. This gives you the highest chance of maximizing your starting stats.

If you DO pre-plan the gear for your character, then put your starting stats into whichever stats will achieve your goals with the pre-planned gear. I don't believe OP is going to be doing this, so it doesn't apply in this case.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rip thanks for posting your Magelo, thats a well geared toon with a nice balance of stats rather than one which just spams one particular philosophy. It’s really interesting to see how everything is just scraping cap with buffs.

I think it does indicate the caution of following minmax advice when not using the supposed min max race option (dump int as str/sta cap easily).

I think most would agree that when doing self found or very lightly twinked (ie just a weapon and haste) characters for the sake of levelling up another alt rather than having a 60 toon to play str is by far the best option. However you’ve managed to demonstrate that for twink or bis putting points into melee stats when not playing a giant race isn’t necessarily going to be quite so wasteful as the community previously believed.

Hey thanks for taking the time to look and yes that was my point. If I had gone int I’d be even more sta starved. Will I get it eventually? Sure but my choice for sta on a DE isn’t a waste. I appreciate you noticing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hey thanks for taking the time to look and yes that was my point. If I had gone int I’d be even more sta starved. Will I get it eventually? Sure but my choice for sta on a DE isn’t a waste. I appreciate you noticing.

I don't think anybody is saying it's a waste. Perhaps this is why people are getting defensive? They think people are attacking their starting stat choices?

Unless you dump your points into WIS, you will get some benefit from STR, STA, DEX, AGI, CHA, or INT. It won't be a waste.

OP should know statistically which starting stat is best, and that is INT based on all the available data thus far. The exception to this is an SSF character, or your first character on a fresh server. STR is going to be better in those cases. OP seems willing to twink their character, so this doesn't apply.

Nobody is forcing OP to pick INT, nor would I call their decision a waste if they went with STR.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Statistically speaking STR and STA are easier to cap with BiS gear in Velious. If you don't believe me, you can simply look at https://wiki.project1999.com/Categor...ight_Equipment and check the stat distributions across the items. You can see my example Magelo here: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:EruditeSKMan . STR is also easy to cap with buffs, long before full BiS gear, as you can get +235 STR from Avatar + Focus of Spirit + Maniacal Strength.

Ripqozko's Magelo (which is awesome btw) simply shows what I assume everybody already knows:

There are thousands of possible equipment combinations for each class.

You can find builds that cap any stat long before full BiS gear. That doesn't prove anything, especially since many of those builds would be considered to be objectively bad for the class using them. It doesn't change the statistical distribution of stats on gear. P99 is a locked server, so we are not going to get new items that can change the statistical distributions.

As far as I am aware, most players do not pre-plan out which BiS (or near BiS) gear they are going to get. This happens organically. That means when creating a new character, you want to put your points into the statistically hardest stat to cap for a Shadowknight, which is INT. This gives you the highest chance of maximizing your starting stats.

If you DO pre-plan the gear for your character, then put your starting stats into whichever stats will achieve your goals with the pre-planned gear. I don't believe OP is going to be doing this, so it doesn't apply in this case.

You can't simultaneously claim that players do not plan out their character while at the same time suggesting that they pick a stat that lends itself to the greatest benefit in the absolute end game planning(INT) which likely over 99% of SKs will never get to due to the sheer amount of time/dedication/difficulty involved.

Ripq's SK is geared better than probably 90% of sks, and he still can't even cap STA.

This isn't a tell me the min/max stat thread for sks. This is an iksar sk just starting out curious about their different options. You are factually foregoing other various benefits by focusing on INT until the absolute end of the game which odds are you will never hit anyway.

I think INT is a clear choice for ogres/trolls. For the rest of the SK races, I think STR or STA are valid cases. There's really no wrong answer here, since we do not know ultimately what OPs final goals are, we can only offer our advice and let them choose what is best for their particular situation. It's not helpful to anyone, including OP, by consistently trying to force your INT preference on this thread.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can't simultaneously claim that players do not plan out their character while at the same time suggesting that they pick a stat that lends itself to the greatest benefit in the absolute end game planning(INT) which likely over 99% of SKs will never get to due to the sheer amount of time/dedication/difficulty involved.

Ripq's SK is geared better than probably 90% of sks, and he still can't even cap STA.

I can say both. I am willing to bet most people do not build a Magelo first and set up their stats based on the results of the Magelo. They acquire gear organically, which may or may not cap a certain stat. Statistically speaking INT is the hardest stat to cap for an SK, so you have the lowest probability of capping that stat with class relevant gear. It really isn't more difficult than that.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't a tell me the min/max stat thread for sks. This is an iksar sk just starting out curious about their different options. You are factually foregoing other various benefits by focusing on INT until the absolute end of the game which odds are you will never hit anyway.

Where did OP say he didn't want the min/max option? You do not get to put words in OP's mouth to try and win the debate, or stifle other posters.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think INT is a clear choice for ogres/trolls. For the rest of the SK races, I think STR or STA are valid cases. There's really no wrong answer here, since we do not know ultimate what OPs final goals are, we can only offer our advice and let them choose what is best for their particular situation. It's not helpful to anyone, including OP, by consistently trying to force your INT preference on this thread.

Not everything is an opinion or preference. I am not saying INT is the best stat due to preference. There is an objectively best and worst stat based on the facts and statistics. INT is the best starting stat in most cases. That doesn't mean OP will be wrong if he chooses to not pick INT. We all agree starting stats are not going to significantly affect OP's experience.

I am not sure why people get so offended at the facts of the game. It is a very strange occurrence on these forums.

[Toxigen]

Troxx is correct here. Let it die, DSM.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troxx is correct here. Let it die, DSM.

I am sorry, but denying facts is not the correct approach here. You simply muddy the waters, and make it impossible for people to find the correct answers.

INT is the best starting stat for an SK unless you are making a self found character, or it is your first character on a server.

To counter the idea that STR is the best starting stat, I have provided multiple pieces of evidence:

I have provided evidence showing the statistical probabilities of stats on gear for SK's, an example of this can be found here: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:EruditeSKMan. This shows that STR and STA are more common on Velious BiS gear. You will cap STR and STA, while not capping INT. This is on an Erudite, who has the highest INT in the game for SK's.

I have shown an Iksar SK can get a large amount of STR in easily acquired gear, this can be found here: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:TestIksarSK. This shows that you can get enough STR to deal good damage and carry around lots of loot without having to raid.

I have provided in-game evidence showing an example of how much DPS +20 STR will give you, that can be found here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=211. This shows a small DPS increase from +20 STR, which means you probably aren't going to be getting a significant boost to kills per hour while leveling.

I have shown that you can get +235 STR with https://wiki.project1999.com/Avatar + https://wiki.project1999.com/Focus_of_Spirit + https://wiki.project1999.com/Maniacal_Strength. This means you can cap STR long before full BiS gear in a number of buff combinations.

I am 100% open to admitting I am wrong if people can provide evidence that rebuts mine.

However, you do not simply get to say "I am right, you are wrong, and I need no evidence". That isn't helpful, and it confuses people.

Games are built on rules and math. There are objective answers to questions like this. So far, the evidence points to INT being the best starting stat. This has more credibility than a mere preference or opinion, as it is backed up by evidence.