Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

velious is still a ways off.

But to say training is going to guarantee the sleeper wont be awoken? That's just stupidity and ignorance. If its already possible to derail trains in VP and take dragons down, as has been proven, then training is not going to be effective enough to prevent the waking of the sleeper anyway. If those who want to wake the sleeper are driven enough they will have 20-30 people waiting to derail any possible trains, and its possible to do so completely and indeffinetly in any zone.

I am not saying training will guarantee the sleeper not being woke. I said it is a way to help protect the sleeper, so is PvP. Even though it will not 100% guarantee him not being woken, it will damn sure delay it and could very easily prevent it a lot of times. Yes it can still be woken with training, and the right amount of people set on waking it.

You are right, it is possible to derail VP trains, but has any guild came in derailed a train an got a dragon from TMO? Yes, but is rare + and it was not the best/baddest dragon in the zone. An i bet even a more rare chance of the derailed train and kill happening with it being the mean ass sleeper.

So this is on VP only. If there was no training and no PvP in VP, it would be a shit show of "accident" trains and who knows what else. A big headache for staff imo to sort out all the problems it would cause if there was No pvp No trains VP.

I agree fuck the training in VP, it does not belong, but if training IS taken out than you have to put in place PvP for those 2 zones to keep it fun/not a headache for GM. It would be a wish if that would happen.

Hopefully some higher ups are reading this and take into consideration VP and ST PvP.
It would be fun and would allow for more competition.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Turp_SmokinPurp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not saying training will guarantee the sleeper not being woke. I said it is a way to help protect the sleeper, so is PvP. Even though it will not 100% guarantee him not being woken, it will damn sure delay it and could very easily prevent it a lot of times. Yes it can still be woken with training, and the right amount of people set on waking it.

So this is on VP only. You are right, it is possible to derail VP trains, but has any guild came in derailed a train an got a dragon from TMO? Yes, but rare. If there was no training and no PvP in VP, it would be a shit show of "accident" trains and who knows what else. A big headache for staff imo to sort out all the problems it would cause No pvp No trains.

I agree fuck the training in VP, it does not belong, but if training IS taken out THAN put in place PvP for those 2 zones only. It would be a wish/great if that would happen.

Hopefully some higher ups are reading this and take into consideration VP and ST PvP.
It would be fun and would allow for more competition.

If it had to come down to PVP flagging VP/ST or allowing training, I would certainly vote PVP. Training is way less difficult to do and boring as hell for the folks who aren't necessarily "trainers" or whatever.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Tasselhof

A major theme I've noticed is people's unwillingness to bury the past and move forward for the greater good of the server.

One person's definition of "greater good" differs from another.

Choo Choo on this!
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[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One person's definition of "greater good" differs from another.

Choo Choo on this!
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That is why I added the accompanying poll so that we can get an idea of where the players stand regarding this situation. This isn't about one player or one guild like I have said, nor is it about past shitty experiences in VP. This is about figuring out how to do away with a non-classic, shitty, rule set for veeshan's peak.

[Langrisser]

who the fuck is that tranny

[Brut]

What's with this whole "we must have means to protect the Sleeper from being woken" nonsense anyway? The sleeper waking up is a unique server mechanic; if the server populance can't agree with each other enough to refrain from waking it up, then tough luck we all lose. The server shouldn't be designed around your fear of someone stopping the farming of SoDs until 2020.

[radditsu]

Any PVP mechanic on a blue server is folly. Thered server is around to specifically to have slap fights over dragons.

Anyway, IB should never have trained TMO. TMO should have never have trained IB. TMO should never have trained bda/fe. FE/BDA should have never have trained TMO. VD should have never mem blurred mobs. None of this should have happend. It caused entirely too much bad blood across guilds. It is something that could have been nipped in the bud early, but TWO YEARS later still causes issues at the top of the raid scene. None of it should have happened. Everyone makes mistakes, and the server has evolved in almost every other way. This mistake should be rectified. TMO should be trying to kill VP dragons with 6 people now, instead of having 6 people run around just to train/countertrain any potential threats. I would respect TMO if they used their gear advantage/supposed player skill to do what we thought was impossible 13 years ago. Instead of griefing people using THE single most abhorrent player abuse in the game of everquest(on a blue server).

The server is blue, the rules should be consistently blue. They built the arena's for blue pvp. EQ is dog eat dog enough, especially this server, without hybrid red psuedo griefing tools. If you want to be a classic experience, be a classic experience.

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any PVP mechanic on a blue server is folly. Thered server is around to specifically to have slap fights over dragons.

Anyway, IB should never have trained TMO. TMO should have never have trained IB. TMO should never have trained bda/fe. FE/BDA should have never have trained TMO. VD should have never mem blurred mobs. None of this should have happend. It caused entirely too much bad blood across guilds. It is something that could have been nipped in the bud early, but TWO YEARS later still causes issues at the top of the raid scene. None of it should have happened. Everyone makes mistakes, and the server has evolved in almost every other way. This mistake should be rectified. TMO should be trying to kill VP dragons with 6 people now, instead of having 6 people run around just to train/countertrain any potential threats. I would respect TMO if they used their gear advantage/supposed player skill to do what we thought was impossible 13 years ago. Instead of griefing people using THE single most abhorrent player abuse in the game of everquest(on a blue server).

The server is blue, the rules should be consistently blue. They built the arena's for blue pvp. EQ is dog eat dog enough, especially this server, without hybrid red psuedo griefing tools. If you want to be a classic experience, be a classic experience.

While I agree with and understand what you're saying in regards to training, I don't think it would have worked itself out any other way, and that is the direct responsibility of both the players, and the GMs (and maybe even a little on the devs).

Ultimately, with the FFA VP rules in place and given the high-end players on this server there was NO ALTERNATIVE way the scenario was ever going to pan out, and it never will unless a rule change is implemented. There are probably 1000+ people that have characters and want to raid on this server. On any given night 300-400 of them are logged in simultaneously. There are not enough mobs available to entertain those people for 5-6 hours a night.

Why wasn't there any alternative? Why didn't someone put in a gentlemanly agreement to not train each other and be civil? Because the raid scene on this server is essentially an arms race. It always has been, and as long as resources remain scarce it always will be. Let's ignore VP for a second and use pre-VP Trakanon as an example.

For 4 months or so after Kunark launching there was only 1 guild killing Trak. As soon as a second guild showed up the escalations began. First thing that changed was the need to camp mains out at the ledge. Coth chains took far too long. Once the other guys caught on and were camping at the ledge it was time to move the ledge closer. Poop mountain became a thing. Once the other guys were on poop mountain, FTE sniping became a thing. It was all about who had the quickest jav's. Once everyone was sniping FTE it became about who can hold it the longest without dying to give their guild the most time to log in. DA tanking with FTE was born.

This same cycle of escalation has happened on mobs all throughout the game, VS, Talendor, Sev, Trak, naggy/vox/draco/fay alts etc.
The point is, in each case the players are going to escalate to the very limit that they can in order to get access to the scarce resources the mobs provide. A lot of times (DA-tanking, training) they are even bending the rules slightly and being down-right as douchey as they can in order to ensure victory.

Now back to VP, where GMs stated that it was going to be a no-csr FFA zone. There was a forced rotation that lasted for a couple of weeks. After that backstabbing training began. Another attempt at rotation was made. More training ensued. Eventually there was even ninja looting which the GMs said was a no-no or I can garuntee you would still be on the field today.

The point is, that the only thing that is going to stop the players are rules and enforcement. The fact that VP was announced as a FFA zone with training allowed means that the ONLY possible final outcome would be the players pushing it as far as possible.

That is the nature of those who raid.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any PVP mechanic on a blue server is folly. Thered server is around to specifically to have slap fights over dragons.

Anyway, IB should never have trained TMO. TMO should have never have trained IB. TMO should never have trained bda/fe. FE/BDA should have never have trained TMO. VD should have never mem blurred mobs. None of this should have happend. It caused entirely too much bad blood across guilds. It is something that could have been nipped in the bud early, but TWO YEARS later still causes issues at the top of the raid scene. None of it should have happened. Everyone makes mistakes, and the server has evolved in almost every other way. This mistake should be rectified. TMO should be trying to kill VP dragons with 6 people now, instead of having 6 people run around just to train/countertrain any potential threats. I would respect TMO if they used their gear advantage/supposed player skill to do what we thought was impossible 13 years ago. Instead of griefing people using THE single most abhorrent player abuse in the game of everquest(on a blue server).

The server is blue, the rules should be consistently blue. They built the arena's for blue pvp. EQ is dog eat dog enough, especially this server, without hybrid red psuedo griefing tools. If you want to be a classic experience, be a classic experience.

Training is Blue. Being able to dispel a non group member or to damage another member without a /d is Red.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training is Blue. Being able to dispel a non group member or to damage another member without a /d is Red.

unintentional training is blue.

Intentional training is a) griefing and b) a red tactic..and not even a honorable red tactic.