sk starting points

[Troxx]

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[Infectious]

Another thread of DSM having to get the last word in that he is correct and everybody else is wrong? LOL who would've thought?

[Snaggles]

“ I have shown an Iksar SK can get a large amount of STR in easily acquired gear, this can be found here: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:TestIksarSK. This shows that you can get enough STR to deal good damage and carry around lots of loot without having to raid.”

The logical choice to upgrade to a Reaver from that horrible Argent Protector (or even to use some nice 1h/shield combos like the Ebon and Ashenbone Shield) will lose you 10 strength. Now down to 162. Leveling up with a shaman you will usually have 60’ish extra strength so 222 out of 255. 10 more with the strength tap that lasts like 5 minutes.

Fast-forward to 60 you will only cap with Maniacal Strength and Focus. As you know shamans have a lot to do on a raid rather than throwing in one more buff. A rational player will just suck it up and deal with Focus. Again, undercapped. 230 buffed strength or 240 if you can land Siphon Strength or I guess carry around a Dark Reaver to stack that too.

If the SK put points into stamina instead of strength at least they wouldn’t be stuck with that 106 shown on the Magelo. They would still be like 74 points from the goal.

Really the link to shared illustrates how marginal little race melee stats are out of the box even if you optimize strength making poor tank armor picks (it looks more ranger than Knight oriented). When you’re still about 20 strength from target and 99 stamina I’d recommend not putting points into intelligence.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

“ I have shown an Iksar SK can get a large amount of STR in easily acquired gear, this can be found here: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:TestIksarSK. This shows that you can get enough STR to deal good damage and carry around lots of loot without having to raid.”

The logical choice to upgrade to a Reaver from that horrible Argent Protector (or even to use some nice 1h/shield combos like the Ebon and Ashenbone Shield) will lose you 10 strength. Now down to 162. Leveling up with a shaman you will usually have 60’ish extra strength so 222 out of 255. 10 more with the strength tap that lasts like 5 minutes.

Fast-forward to 60 you will only cap with Maniacal Strength and Focus. As you know shamans have a lot to do on a raid rather than throwing in one more buff. A rational player will just suck it up and deal with Focus. Again, undercapped. 230 buffed strength or 240 if you can land Siphon Strength or I guess carry around a Dark Reaver to stack that too.

If the SK put points into stamina instead of strength at least they wouldn’t be stuck with that 106 shown on the Magelo. They would still be like 74 points from the goal.

Really the link to shared illustrates how marginal little race melee stats are out of the box even if you optimize strength making poor tank armor picks (it looks more ranger than Knight oriented). When you’re still about 20 strength from target and 99 stamina I’d recommend not putting points into intelligence.

Yea if that is the magelo he made it shows even more than mine how bad sta can be. As if mine didn’t tho. Sheesh

[busted]

After reading all 38 pages of this thread, I can conclude that +20 AGI as starting stats is the way to go.

Thank you for the insight all!

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by busted [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After reading all 38 pages of this thread, I can conclude that +20 AGI as starting stats is the way to go.

Thank you for the insight all!

10/10

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Good to hear, just letting you know that when you disagree with an opinion, write it off as nonsense and ask people to stop posting then it can come across that way.

If you make a factual claim without evidence, it is nonsense. Telling people +20 STR is giving you a significant DPS boost is like saying 20 STA gives you 500 HP (this isn't true). I ask that people stop posting factual inaccuracies, because it causes confusion. That is all I am asking

If you are confident about the DPS boost, you need to show your work. I will be happy to admit I am wrong if you can show the DPS numbers.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cheers mate! I had a blast with you on Thursday. I got to check something off my list of EQ experiences (crawling Lower Guk), and we both leveled. I'm very appreciative that you were up for duoing even though most of my posts on here are disagreeing with you. And those Adamantite Epaulets are a great upgrade for me.

It does make me chuckle that when we ended the evening I was ~50 stone overweight, although a lot of that was because you graciously let me do all the looting and because I forgot to vendor/bank before meeting up.

Yeah I had a blast, thanks for grouping with me!

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are confident about the DPS boost, you need to show your work. I will be happy to admit I am wrong if you can show the DPS numbers.

My numbers (the ones I acknowledged were insufficient in that I didn’t occupy the camp long enough to log enough hits) showed a 16% difference. I was more than happy to exclude my parses from the discussion. My findings were TOO GOOD to be real. They supported my hypothesis to an unbelievable level. The fights were too short and Lady Luck obviously skewed the data. I needed a sample size at least 5-10x larger to be even remotely confident of anything.

I was planning on repeating my testing on a mob that wasn’t a level 5 green, but you somehow took my findings (flawed though they were) and managed to twist it in your mind as somehow being consistent with your findings and supporting your argument when they did the exact opposite.

????

It was at that moment I remembered how it doesn’t actually matter whether opposing evidence is given to you. You always either shift a goalpost or wildly misinterpret what is given to you.

So yeah I gave up on wasting 4-8 hours of my life when the data you provided from Mr Turtle was perfectly sufficient (flawed though it is) to drive the point home.

YOUR numbers showed the 4.3% DPS boost from 20 under cap strength difference. For the purposes of discussion and to give you the benefit of the doubt, WE have been referencing YOUR numbers for several pages now.

Using YOUR evidence that YOU provided …

It’s a choice between:

A) At least 4.3% more damage and 20lb more hauling capacity 100% of the time you’re not overcapped str

B) A mana pool larger in size to whatever degree 20 intelligence will help you at whatever level you are and your intelligence relative to the pre/post 200 intelligence returns. At 60 this could be as high as 200 more mana or as low as 80 more mana. The returns on mana are exponentially lower the lower your level - the amount of mana per int (or wis for priests and their hybrids) scales with level.

A represents an always there benefit - whether you’re in combat or hauling weight.

B represents the possibility of a benefit at some point between level 1-60 where an extra 20-25 mana (low levels) to scaled up 80-200 extra mana (level 60) where that extra mana might have let you accomplish something you otherwise might not have been able to that would have made a meaningful difference. It requires the SK find themselves in not only an extraordinary situation … but also find themselves otherwise out of mana at the point in time that 20-25 (lowest levels) scaling up with levels to 80-200 extra mana (level 60). It doesn’t let you cast more spells over time. It just makes your maximum reserve a wee bit bigger.

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You got so caught up in the weeds of having “evidence” and “data” to “prove a point” that you missed out on the most important part of it all: the practical discussion.

Unfortunately I think when you see posts like this (ones with lots of paragraphs and complete sentences) you tend to focus on individual trees you find objectionable and miss the whole god damn forest around you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You got so caught up in the weeds of having “evidence” and “data” to “prove a point” that you missed out on the most important part of it all: the practical discussion.

Unfortunately I think when you see posts like this (ones with lots of paragraphs and complete sentences) you tend to focus on individual trees you find objectionable and miss the whole god damn forest around you.

I haven't missed the practical discussion.

If you read my posts, you will see I have leveled an Iksar Monk from 10-52 recently with 140 STR or less, and without Tink Bags. I was getting 1 level an hour, and was able to loot/sell everything. I know from practial experience 160 STR wouldn't have improved my leveling experience compared to 140 STR.

I read everything you post. You are simply too busy trolling and saying nonsense like "you are moving goalposts", when I have been 100% consistent. The only goalpost moving has been other posters switching between "starting stats do not matter" and "STR is giving you a significant DPS boost". This is why most of what you type isn't worth replying to. Typing a lot of paragraphs doesn't mean you are actually saying anything worthwhile.

My current data https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=300 shows the DPS difference is 1.5 or so with +20 STR, and this difference is probably going to be lower at lower levels. This isn't going to be noticeable to a player casually leveling.

If you want to bring some valid data, I would be happy to take a look, and admit I am wrong if you show the DPS difference is large enough to matter.

The data currently shows INT as the best starting stat, and most people agree that starting stats don't really matter.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are simply too busy trolling and saying nonsense like "you are moving goalposts"

Pretty sure that's the first time i've said that in this thread.