Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody is going to take your pathetic comebacks seriously once they read this thread.

People like you make others lose faith in the human race, DSM. You argue over something so innocuous and inconsequential, which is that somehow shamans are better DPS than mages, because you're afraid of being wrong.

I don't know whether you've noticed this or not, but this game is extremely easy to figure out. A person on their way to 60 doing groups will quickly discover that mages out DPS shamans by a significant amount. DPS metres aren't necessary, either, to discover the truth. Whenever we tried to provide you data anyway, you moved the goalposts every single time.

It's just EverQuest, you child! It's just another video game with characters/classes that have been analysed for more than 2 decades. We all know mage is superior as a DPSer. This is an open and shut case here. You'd make a religious zealot blush with your behaviour.

Just give it up already.

Again, this is why the thread is 375 pages. Please improve your reading comprehension, or stop trolling.

[Gloomlord]

I'm sorry, did you think this reply makes any sense?

The thread has exposed you long ago for the psychopathic man child you are. You would do well to bow out and never return.

I didn't even want this thread bumped again. But if you're going to make a post saying this thread "exposed the trolls", when you should have left well enough alone, then you are the most pathetic human being I've ever seen on the internet.

Just fuck off already.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry, did you think this reply makes any sense?

The thread has exposed you long ago for the psychopathic man child you are. You would do well to bow out and never return.

I didn't even want this thread bumped again. But if you're going to make a post saying this thread "exposed the trolls", when you should have left well enough alone, then you are the most pathetic human being I've ever seen on the internet.

Just fuck off already.

Blame Toxigen for bumping the thread, not me.

When you make posts like this, you aren't doing yourself any favors, or making yourself look good. It simply proves my point.

I said you have a reading comprehension issue because it is the truth. That, or you are trolling by twisting what I said.

I did not say Shamans can out DPS a Mage in single target scenarios, which is what people are going to think when you accuse me of saying "Shamans can out DPS Mages". I said Shamans can out DPS a Mage if you can root rot multiple mobs at a time, which is a perfectly valid strategy in an XP group where you are just churning through mobs.

The zealous behavior in this thread was people saying "you can't root rot multiple mobs in a group, that isn't allowed!". This is clearly not true, but apparently people can't have Mages be in a position where they aren't out-DPSing the Shaman.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did not say Shamans can out DPS a Mage in single target scenarios, which is what people are going to think when you accuse me of saying "Shamans can out DPS Mages". I said Shamans can out DPS a Mage if you can root rot multiple mobs at a time, which is a perfectly valid strategy in an XP group where you are just churning through mobs.

I'd be really interested in hearing about your experiences trying this strategy. Say, any XP or loot groups with someone charming, and with you spending the majority of your time root rotting. What zones and groups have you had success with it?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd be really interested in hearing about your experiences trying this strategy. Say, any XP or loot groups with someone charming, and with you spending the majority of your time root rotting. What zones and groups have you had success with it?

Oh sure, I've done it in Seb and Velks groups before. It's no different from root rotting solo in those zones. Just root rot while the Enchanters are churning away. They can target the DoTed mobs if you need to move your camp or just need to clean up. It is already a common
group strategy to simply root mobs away from the group for CC purposes. It's not a large leap to apply DoTs to those mobs. For casters it just depends on your resists. I have raid gear, so I can just resist tank the casters safely. The Enchanters don't really need to mes to stop casting. I am referring to Seb mobs for the casters, obviously different zones can have stronger casters.

The issue with this thread is a lot of people claiming it doesn't work keep switching between loot and xp groups to try and keep it unclear as to what they were talking about. They know they can't win the argument if you pin them down on the type of group.

Obviously root rotting doesn't work when you are just camping a single loot mob like Fungi King. But the point they don't want to hear is if all you are doing is killing a single mob every 30 minutes, an extra 50 DPS is irrelevant. It takes 90 seconds to kill Fungi King at 200 DPS, vs. 72 seconds with 250 DPS. Theres no point in bringing a Mage for an 18 second saving every 30 minutes.

Some Fungi King groups xp at the same time while waiting for respawn, but that still doesn't need extra dps. I've done both styles of Fungi King group before. Shaman is a popular class at that camp.

[cyxthryth]

For anyone catching back up on this thread or for new-attendees in need of a TL;DR, here is the current state of the discussion based on all available evidence (I submit this entire thread as such evidence):

DSM simply has not addressed/replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute the following:

DSM has repeatedly provided copy/pastes which simply do not contain any evidence or data of his Shaman performing DPS - or any other action/activity - in an environment/context/scenario that is (or would be) relevant to the discussion; hence his copy/pastes are irrelevant to this discussion.

While DSM is - seemingly - unable or unwilling to provide relevant evidence/data that supports his many claims/statements/positions (which change when he moves the goalposts & edits his posts), I have irrefutable proof of the following, which DSM has as of yet not addressed/replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute:

Here is irrefutable proof/evidence - which cannot be refuted, and which is self-evident - of DSM attempting to move the goalposts by bringing a 5th "pocket" character into his "arguments" (even though this is intended to be a civil discussion - not an argument) pertaining to the "Best 4 person all caster/priest group" discussion":

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP never said you couldn't have a pocket cleric. I am not sure why people keep thinking this is not a possible route to take. Between four people it would be trivial to level a cleric to 39. It is pretty common for people to make pocket clerics on P99.

Here is irrefutable proof/evidence - which cannot be refuted, and which is self evident - that DSM attempted to accuse others of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The post history is clear. You are now including cyxthryth to try and strengthen your https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum argument because you have nothing else. I find it highly amusing.

Here is my reply to DSM's attempt, in which I point out to him the irrefutable fact - which cannot be refuted - that DSM himself attempted - laughably - to claim (intentionally or otherwise) that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum strengthened his argument when one (1) single other person seemed to agree with him:

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think since my post is general, then there was never a goalpost to begin with. Best is whatever you personally think best means.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Having multiple conversations simultaneously is not moving goalposts. Talking about pocket clerics when OP didn't specify that was outside of the scope is not moving goalposts. OP's question was general, and he has said as much.

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your post would seem to betray that you are aware that you have moved goalposts, because you are now attempting (disingenuously) to validate said goalpost-moving by stating that it is objectively true that the OP's post "is general" and that this somehow means "you are not moving the goalposts" by changing the basis of the discussion (from being about 4 priests/casters, to being about 4 priests/casters plus X amount of pocket Clerics, or other pocket classes). It is not objectively true that you are "not moving the goalposts" just because you and OP both agree that the OP's post "was general" and that that somehow means "you are not moving the goalposts". That is simply you - laughably - claiming you (and OP) are correct due to argumentum ad populum hehe. This really isn't hard.

Please clarify what you mean by stating OP's post "was general"?

Here is irrefutable proof/evidence - which cannot be refuted, and which is self evident - that DSM has claimed:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Assuming your group plays correctly, you will DPS the same way every time, the same as if you were solo.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am very confident it won't change in a group scenario.

Here is irrefutable proof/evidence - which cannot be refuted, and which is self evident - that DSM has also claimed:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in a group setting, there are too many variables out of your control that can skew the data

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once you add in outside variables, that changes the DPS equation NOT because of what the class can do, but because of what other players are doing.

Here is irrefutable proof/evidence - which cannot be refuted, and which is self evident - of DSM's post in which he claimed Troxx's numbers were way different from Allishia's:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also Allishia's numbers were way different from yours

Here is irrefutable proof/evidence - which cannot be refuted, and which is self evident - of DSM's post to Allishia when they provided their initial data in which he claimed Allishia's numbers were the same as Troxx's:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the data! I'll get the logs from you a bit later today. Just looking at it here, the numbers are the same as Troxx's data.

As I have repeatedly stated - it is not always clear to other posters what particular position/claim/"argument"(s) DSM is defending at any given time due to how often he has moved the goalposts & edited his posts.

For these reasons - which I have repeatedly stated - I am not sure which particular/specific belief/claim/stance/"argument"(s) that DSM is currently holding/defending/"arguing"; it would be helpful if he could elaborate/clarify/specify for the sake of civil discussion.

I am also not sure why DSM has continued to copy/paste his - irrelevant - data, after this exchange occured - which cannot be refuted & is visible and clear in the cleary visible post history - which DSM simply has as of yet not addressed/replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reason why I am reposting the information is because the trolls are trying to hide the information.

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No. The content of your post seems to include a claim that "the trolls" are trying to "hide the information". The first problem is that your post would seem to indicate that you believe that information will be "hidden" if additional posts are made - that is objectively false/incorrect DSM. Even if additional posts are made after a specific post, the post history is - and will remain - clear hehe.

Now that you have been advised and/or reminded of this irrefutable fact - which cannot be refuted - you should not need to continue to copy/paste to make sure your posts do not get "hidden" hehe.

I am also not sure why your post(s) would seemingly indicate that you think that the particular data/information that you keep providing in your copy/pasted posts - which includes data/information of your Shaman's performance in an environment/context/scenario that is contrary to the environment/context/scenario relevant to this discussion, as has been pointed out to you multiple times by multiple posters - is somehow relevant to this discussion. It is not. It is simply irrelevant for reasons explained in multiple posts by multiple posters (including in this very post).

Even though DSM ultimately - without addressing/replying to/acknowledging/defending/challenging/attempting to refute the above - seemingly openly conceded his "argument(s)" - whatever they were at the time - by stating the following on 9/18/2022:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This will be my last post

DSM has recently returned to this thread & has proceed posting additional replies - to posters other than myself. This would seemingly indicate DSM has chosen to return to this civil discussion. DSM - of course - still has not addressed/replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute the aforementioned above quotes, and as is clearly visible in the post history DSM has continued to label me and/or my posts as "a troll"/"trolling", without providing the definition of "troll" / "trolling" that he is using (nor what he meant by stating that OP's post "was general"), and whilst providing zero evidence to support his claims of my being a troll/trolling.

The ball is - still - in DSM's court if he has relevant, factual data to support his various positions/claims/"argument"(s) - and is willing to clarify which particular position/claim/argument(s) he currently holds/"argues", as they change when he moves goalposts or edits his posts - and/or if he would like to provide the definitions he is using for "troll"/"trolling", "nonsense", "silly", "vitriol", "new" and "win" for the sake of civil discussin hehe.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Gloomlord]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh sure, I've done it in Seb and Velks groups before. It's no different from root rotting solo in those zones. Just root rot while the Enchanters are churning away. They can target the DoTed mobs if you need to move your camp or just need to clean up. It is already a common
group strategy to simply root mobs away from the group for CC purposes. It's not a large leap to apply DoTs to those mobs. For casters it just depends on your resists. I have raid gear, so I can just resist tank the casters safely. The Enchanters don't really need to mes to stop casting. I am referring to Seb mobs for the casters, obviously different zones can have stronger casters.

The issue with this thread is a lot of people claiming it doesn't work keep switching between loot and xp groups to try and keep it unclear as to what they were talking about. They know they can't win the argument if you pin them down on the type of group.

Obviously root rotting doesn't work when you are just camping a single loot mob like Fungi King. But the point they don't want to hear is if all you are doing is killing a single mob every 30 minutes, an extra 50 DPS is irrelevant. It takes 90 seconds to kill Fungi King at 200 DPS, vs. 72 seconds with 250 DPS. Theres no point in bringing a Mage for an 18 second saving every 30 minutes.

Some Fungi King groups xp at the same time while waiting for respawn, but that still doesn't need extra dps. I've done both styles of Fungi King group before. Shaman is a popular class at that camp.

Provided you're somehow telling the truth, you pathetic creature: there's still no reason for you to take 3-4 mobs to a camp and root rot them, rather than a mage simply increasing the speed of a kill on a single mob for the price of 2 keybinds.

And you selected this scenario simply to show us that shamans can indeed do more damage than mages, which was only triggered by your cowardly refusal to admit that groups try to kill one target at a time in EQ. Why? Because it's more efficient to do so.

There are better players than you who don't root rot next to camp doing charms. It just doesn't happen.

Watching your videos, I can see you barely press keybinds either. You're telling me you're going to do more than a mage in a group without completely disrupting it by getting multiple mobs in the camp in order to root rot?

Unless I see video evidence of you doing this in a group with 2 charms, you can fuck right off.

[Gloomlord]

Can you honestly tell me, throughout this thread, you weren't making some of the most disingenuous arguments imaginable? You deserved every insult and mockery thrown towards you.

We already explained more than half a year ago to you why no one is going to root rot mobs parallel to a 2 charm group sawing through one mob at a time. Do we really have to have another 300 pages explaining to you why this is insane behaviour?

Are you this insanely childish to continue with this rhetoric after this amount of time?

You knew you were wrong then, and you still know you're wrong now. Coming back after this amount of time doesn't lessen this.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you honestly tell me, throughout this thread, you weren't making some of the most disingenuous arguments imaginable? You deserved every insult and mockery thrown towards you.

We already explained more than half a year ago to you why no one is going to root rot mobs parallel to a 2 charm group sawing through one mob at a time. Do we really have to have another 300 pages explaining to you why this is insane behaviour?

Are you this insanely childish to continue with this rhetoric after this amount of time?

You knew you were wrong then, and you still know you're wrong now. Coming back after this amount of time doesn't lessen this.

"You can't play the game in a way that allows Shamans to do more DPS". This is why you are a troll. You are trying to force people to play the game in a specific way so you cannot be wrong on an Elf forum[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And you are trying to claim you are the adult here?

[Gloomlord]

You remember that comment I made about having a wizard and bard doing their own thing parallel to 4 other people taking one mob at a time? You remember how I said how insanely illogical it would be for them to be engaging in a snare kite would be in this group?

Nobody said that shaman couldn't hypothetically do more damage than a mage with enough rooted targets taking DoTs -- we said it was adding unnecessary risk to this 4 man group, and that it wasn't conducive to speeding up the kills in a charm group.

Listen: I know you're not very intelligent, considering you're back here again, but can't you see how irrelevant shaman is here in a 2 enchanter 1 cleric group?

You really can't see how you're being checkmated here once again?