Asking a favor from the two top guilds on the server

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm afraid that's not strictly true. The argument for a God in RL is not proven and possibly never can be. But in p1999 s/he exists and it is unequivocally undeniable.

It is not the king that makes the framework of rules by which we govern ourself in this universe, it is God.

are you implying the staff = gods? because they dont. and i can guarantee you than Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, and the others do not want players killing any high end raid mobs.
its more like
gods = gods,
GMs/staff = different levels of law enforcement,
players = "citizens"

the staff has no plans or desire to dictate the raid scene to the players. it will be what you make it.

Originally Posted by Lyra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had a boss that used that analogy all the time...
Just going to say... even though I don't like cats...that is a terrible analogy!

I'm one of those peace loving hippie types. I like harmony. I don't like conflict. I attempt peaceful resolution all can agree to.

If there isn't one, I can fight for what I want. Though, I don't think anyone has to worry about me yet.....

I am totally against GM intervention.

fwiw, i cant stand cats either. Luclin would have been sexier with dog people imo.
oh, and i am also totally against GM intervention [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

are you implying the staff = gods? because they dont. and i can guarantee you than Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, and the others do not want players killing any high end raid mobs.
its more like
gods = gods,
GMs/staff = different levels of law enforcement,
players = "citizens"

the staff has no plans or desire to dictate the raid scene to the players. it will be what you make it.

Yep I'm saying exactly that. Staff are the gods and they lay down the law (and enforce it) hey I didn't like your analogy but ran with it. Your explanation above does not explain where the laws come from.

Still don't see why you are so against, actually no that's not the right words but rather not more positive for the general idea that the peasants (small guilds/casuals) should once in a bluemoon have a shot at some bugger raid targets - the top guilds still have their virtual monopoly/competition/namecalling-contest while the small guys get to see something more of the game.

win win imo.

[pharmakos]

simulated patch days would be way better than any of the other ideas posted in this thread.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yep I'm saying exactly that. Staff are the gods and they lay down the law (and enforce it) hey I didn't like your analogy but ran with it. Your explanation above does not explain where the laws come from.

Still don't see why you are so against, actually no that's not the right words but rather not more positive for the general idea that the peasants (small guilds/casuals) should once in a bluemoon have a shot at some bugger raid targets - the top guilds still have their virtual monopoly/competition/namecalling-contest while the small guys get to see something more of the game.

win win imo.

ah well, you're wrong. we arent gods. i never meant to imply that we were the gods. we are watchers that try to keep order amongst the chaos. personally i think the raid scene will still get worse before it gets better. if i was any guild besides TMO/FE, i have a pretty solid way to take their mobs, not all of them, not even close. but snatch a few traks and see what happens. and before any QQs about how impossible it is to steal trak, take a moment to stfu and think out side the box for a few minutes. its much much easier than most of you realize.

and my personal opinion on rotations has no bearing on the situation. personally i think they are retarded, unrewarding, and essentially free handouts, but its also not up to me to decide. everybody enjoys different things. you might really enjoy something i think to be dumb, and vice versa. neither of us is right or wrong for our thinking, we do what makes us happy.

but as it stands right now, the staff will absolutely not dictate to the players how the raid scene will work between guilds, and that includes forcing a rotation.

that being said, just as we wont force a rotation on the guilds, if the guilds did work out a rotation, the staff would not get in the way.

[Thulack]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and im very sorry to hear that, but my server and MANY OTHERS did not have a rotation (see how that straw man argument fails?), and only time will tell if the players are "mature" enough to agree to something like that. but MOST servers, did not in fact have a rotation, because most players did not want a rotation or could not agree to a rotation. honestly i feel bad for people whose entire raid experience is based on non competitive rotations. that said, its completely up to the players to decide and then work out how they will handle raid mobs.

look, let me try another approach. lets say we all live in a kingdom, and for whatever reason you and a few people decide that the King is a piece of shit, and that his laws are garbage. well, it would be next to impossible to simply start your own kingdom, and make your own rules, because the true king would have you all beheaded. first you must kill the king by whatever means required. and then after the king has been killed by the usurpers, and they become the new kings, they get to set the new rules for the kingdom.

basically trying to do anything different in the raid scene requires 1 of 2 things to happen. either 1) the King agrees with you and your ideas. or 2) you must kill the king.

and it does not appear the king agrees, so you're down to option 2.

The king needs the people though. The people don't need the king and the King needs to remember that.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Thulack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The king needs the people though. The people don't need the king and the King needs to remember that.

the king needs HIS people, not all people. and the people need to remember that [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Funkutron5000]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the king needs HIS people, not all people. and the people need to remember that [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The North Remembers, Sirken.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Funkutron5000 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The North Remembers, Sirken.

fawk.

6 days
4 hours
30 min

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and my personal opinion on rotations has no bearing on the situation. personally i think they are retarded, unrewarding, and essentially free handouts,

I fail to see how a small guild on a rotation with as much likelyhood to wipe on a mob as it is to kill it (thus losing their shot at it) is considered a free hand out, yet joining a zerg force and standing in a dkp line is not.

[slappytwotoes]

Originally Posted by Thulack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The king needs the people though. The people don't need the king and the King needs to remember that.

Yea this is only true regarding TMO/FE's own members. Unless they revolt en masse, the King doesn't care.

An uprising from other guilds more amounts to a hostile invasion from other lands.

Speaking of Sirken's Uprising (patent pending), I don't have guild data but suspect 'the rebels' would be sorely outnumbered (only referring to quality raiding member totals).