Lord Nagafen & Lady Vox status (post 52 restriction)

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I'm sorry you guys lost Nagafen, but again get more competitive. Learn the tricks of that raid encounter and don't act like attacking the giants prior to bridge gives you some claim on the end mob. This isn't WoW, it's not a dungeon crawl to a boss in an instance. FTE is the rule and there are many, many, creative ways this gets done at the top.

was insulting to me because I wasn't claiming anything of the sort. And when was the last time this guild did this thing to TR to deserve the act? What we are saying is we aren't asking for you to surrender mobs. But in a position like this where we clearly got 'there' first, pulled all the giants to include Rokyl and you have 2 people there just let us have our shot. It isn't like we wiped, or sat there for 45 minutes bringing more people. We were there, you were not. Never have we leapfrogged or tried to gank another guilds' raid target yet apparently it is acceptable and defensible behavior to do this here? You want a race, a competition, you claim to be the best at mobilizing but when someone else actually gets the position first it means nothing because leapfrogging or attempting to leapfrog is a strategy? What I am saying is look, we got 'here' first wherever 'here' may be. If we were at the bridge, and TR ran by us that wouldn't be leapfrogging, the strategy would be how to engage and kill Naggy first and let the other guy pull certain fire giants. But there has to be a point where the other guild has position, otherwise it comes down to the same petty nonsense you wouldn't tolerate in your kids. Parents tell their kids to share or no one gets it, to take turns or wait their turn, adults wait in line or schedule appointments but here it is anarchy? How by any stretch of the imagination is leapfrogging in this case acceptable behavior? Because someone said 'it is ok to leapfrog?' It may make it not bannable behavior, but it doesn't make it ok. If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. And how do we determine socially acceptable behavior? Doesn't the society determine it? Well your society is speaking up, maybe you should listen. Forget the past and the nonsense that occurred, I am sure many of you thought it was bullshit but just accepted it because you had to. Here is the chance to not have to, and instead you refuse to help change things. Continuing to be part of the solution and not the problem.

[Raavak]

Takens mob? TR fte? This whole argument is stupid because TR even being near Naggy at this stage in the game is pathetic.

[Leokaiser]

I have no stake in this matter, and barely know anyone involved, but it is interesting reading. I imagine it would be obvious to most people looking with an objective eye that if one disagrees with the sentiments expressed by Bauman, Yendor and Skope regarding the behaviour of the top raid guilds, then you probably are indeed a bit of a dick.

The 'moral highground' is no where near as subjective as some might wish to proclaim in order to excuse their own behaviour. Moral values are generally set by the majority, sometimes producing undesirable behavioural patterns, but most of the time people find it easy to tell what is right and what isn't. Here, it is glaringly clear that that the tactics the top guilds apply against each other (and the rest) are not fit to fill a shit sandwich.

This has nothing to do with winners and losers. If you think people only disagree with using 'low' tactics because they see winners using them and they jelly, guess again - your moral values aren't different because you are a winner, they are different because it suits you to be an asshat. There is a destinction.

Obligatory analogy time.

Most people lacking money will envy a rich man, but if that man became rich through talent or sheer hard work, most sensible people wouldn't grudge him his wealth and he would be respected for his success. However, if the same man wants to become richer through stealing, he wouldn't say to those who decry this theft "you wouldn't complain about stealing if you had all the money too", and any respect he had before would go out the window.

Now I'm not accusing any raid guilds of 'theft', per se, but to say that people only think dick move is dick because they ain't getting the lewtz, really? Really really?

I'm actually quite surprised that people have been trying to defend this sorry state of affairs, rather than just be brazen about it, as is usually the case here.

[PureLo]

Cyrano just close your lips kid/quit moving your fingers to type, you make yourself sound like an unintelligent scrub.

"Let's send some of our 60's to tail/potentially train a raid that is ahead of us, so that they can let us know when there is a clear shot at the raid mob... then we can switch toons/log in and all rush in and claim this fabled inconsistent FTE after they did all the work, ok guys? Sweet."

Friggin idiot

[JenJen]

remember : half, if not more, of europe has no sense of humour.

[Harrison]

lol pussies hiding in anonymity

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I guess we know who really wears the tin foil hats. Fool.

[Diggles]

Originally Posted by h0tr0d (shaere)

I guess we know who really wears the tin foil hats. Fool.

Ahh. A shaere post. I miss those