The Sleeper to be awoken tonight in Rampage's final raid.

[Joyelle]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was at most of the raids that those "Infractions" occurred. There was literally 1 legit issue of the 5.

Klandicar- Nalken pulled him with 2 Mallet charges and said so in TS. Some of our pullers did not hear this. I tagged it off the train with 3 charges and brought it to the tunnel and setup to bleed the fear. Osirous tagged it with one Mallet charge and ran to the raid for when the fear went off and I either flopped or died. Bled the fear and died before I could flop. Klandicar turned back towards Nalken because Osirous didn't hear that it needed more than 2 mallet charges. It turned around and warped through the wall. So we told our raid to run out to the front of the tunnel and kill it. It was an honest mistake by one tagger. It was iffy and could be seen as a violation.

However, we did not stay inside ToV, stall it and then zone out. WE were already buffed and prepping for Sontalak. We zoned out immediately. So the wording on this is a little odd.

Hoshkar- BDA kited Hoshkar for over 1 minute ping ponging back and forth to their raid. They then wiped and were recovering. We had an issue on the pull while they were dragging corpses. Hoshkar AE'd their raid but did not train them. They attacked Hoshkars pet but we pulled Hoshkar back away and he never touched their raid. No clue how we got hit with training BDA here.

Lady M- Pull went west and we immediately dropped it and let her start resetting for well over a minute. Rampage/Taken made no attempt to pull it. She got back to 4-way after this time and we repulled her after dropping the pull. Don't really understand the problem here. When you drop a pull and give the other guild an opportunity to pull and they don't. How long are you supposed to wait ?

Tormax- Same as Lady M. Pull warped and went towards EW. We dropped it and the other guild had an opportunity to pull and didn't. Again... How long are you supposed to wait ? No one has said anything clearly here. 1 minute ? 2 minutes ? No clue here. We witnessed Taken and Rampage train Dain to zone in 2 times and train multiple people the last Dain. They dropped it and picked it up 3 times before killing it while killing other people with trains. They still pulled and killed Dain without the other guild having an opportunity to pull.

Ikatiar- We started a Lady N pull to zone in on a Repop. BDA 45 seconds into this pull pulls Ikatiar after we train up and engages it in the front Hallway. Their pull cross aggroed the pull we already had started before them. Their pullers did not clear their aggro and didn't /q. The train came back to them and wiped both guilds. Who is at fault here ? The guild that didn't clear their pull aggro while pulling after we did or us ? They literally trained us with the same pull. Yet we are in trouble for it.

Lazie why was Asgard not suspended with you guys for these infractions?

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Joyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lazie why was Asgard not suspended with you guys for these infractions?

Because the majority of those infractions as I just pointed out should not be punished ? I can see one and a long stretch at maybe 2. At least give a clear definition of how long you have to wait after you drop a pull. Because it seems giving 1 minute or longer isn't enough when it is us. However, the last Dain showed you could ping pong him back and forth from his spawn 2 or 3 times and train multiple people and it's legitimately ok to pull and kill the mob without punishment. Why is Dracoliche your only infraction ? We can name basically the same infractions for you guys that were that close.

Tracker FTE on Yelinak- Rampage pretends to be raiding alone and neither guild gets in trouble.

Trains by Rampage at Zlandicar- Multiple at these and no Zlandicar suspensions happened even with fraps presented.

Rampage and Taken- Zoned out a Lady N and trained it onto Detoxx when he had FTE on Vulak on Dracomir. No punishment. You guys literally zoned a mob you had killed down to 60% and trained a puller with it. You then pulled and failed on Vulak immediately after this.

[colicab]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lady M- Pull went west and we immediately dropped it and let her start resetting for well over a minute. Rampage/Taken made no attempt to pull it. She got back to 4-way after this time and we repulled her after dropping the pull. Don't really understand the problem here. When you drop a pull and give the other guild an opportunity to pull and they don't. How long are you supposed to wait ?

Tormax- Same as Lady M. Pull warped and went towards EW. We dropped it and the other guild had an opportunity to pull and didn't. Again... How long are you supposed to wait ? No one has said anything clearly here. 1 minute ? 2 minutes ? No clue here. We witnessed Taken and Rampage train Dain to zone in 2 times and train multiple people the last Dain. They dropped it and picked it up 3 times before killing it while killing other people with trains. They still pulled and killed Dain without the other guild having an opportunity to pull.

Recovering someone else's botched pull would be pretty difficult near impossible for anyone. You know as well as anyone especially on Tormax, FTEer gets cothed in hits mallet and clicks yes on TL box. Can't really do that in the middle of a huge train of giants most of which are sowed.

This constant "warped" excuse is lame.

[Skew]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was at most of the raids that those "Infractions" occurred. There was literally 1 legit issue of the 5.

Klandicar- Nalken pulled him with 2 Mallet charges and said so in TS. Some of our pullers did not hear this. I tagged it off the train with 3 charges and brought it to the tunnel and setup to bleed the fear. Osirous tagged it with one Mallet charge and ran to the raid for when the fear went off and I either flopped or died. Bled the fear and died before I could flop. Klandicar turned back towards Nalken because Osirous didn't hear that it needed more than 2 mallet charges. It turned around and warped through the wall. So we told our raid to run out to the front of the tunnel and kill it. It was an honest mistake by one tagger. It was iffy and could be seen as a violation.

However, we did not stay inside ToV, stall it and then zone out. WE were already buffed and prepping for Sontalak. We zoned out immediately. So the wording on this is a little odd.

Hoshkar- BDA kited Hoshkar for over 1 minute ping ponging back and forth to their raid. They then wiped and were recovering. We had an issue on the pull while they were dragging corpses. Hoshkar AE'd their raid but did not train them. They attacked Hoshkars pet but we pulled Hoshkar back away and he never touched their raid. No clue how we got hit with training BDA here.

Lady M- Pull went west and we immediately dropped it and let her start resetting for well over a minute. Rampage/Taken made no attempt to pull it. She got back to 4-way after this time and we repulled her after dropping the pull. Don't really understand the problem here. When you drop a pull and give the other guild an opportunity to pull and they don't. How long are you supposed to wait ?

Tormax- Same as Lady M. Pull warped and went towards EW. We dropped it and the other guild had an opportunity to pull and didn't. Again... How long are you supposed to wait ? No one has said anything clearly here. 1 minute ? 2 minutes ? No clue here. We witnessed Taken and Rampage train Dain to zone in 2 times and train multiple people the last Dain. They dropped it and picked it up 3 times before killing it while killing other people with trains. They still pulled and killed Dain without the other guild having an opportunity to pull.

Ikatiar- We started a Lady N pull to zone in on a Repop. BDA 45 seconds into this pull pulls Ikatiar after we train up and engages it in the front Hallway. Their pull cross aggroed the pull we already had started before them. Their pullers did not clear their aggro and didn't /q. The train came back to them and wiped both guilds. Who is at fault here ? The guild that didn't clear their pull aggro while pulling after we did or us ? They literally trained us with the same pull. Yet we are in trouble for it.

One of the worst things about Rampage core bailing is the vacuum it may leave in ToV. Rampage pullers at least knew their stuff.
Having Chest and his merry band of retards in ToV would be an absolute cluster fuck.
BDA , Please stay in VP training mobs into Hosh lair because "thats how you do it"

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was at most of the raids that those "Infractions" occurred. There was literally 1 legit issue of the 5.

Klandicar- Nalken pulled him with 2 Mallet charges and said so in TS. Some of our pullers did not hear this. I tagged it off the train with 3 charges and brought it to the tunnel and setup to bleed the fear. Osirous tagged it with one Mallet charge and ran to the raid for when the fear went off and I either flopped or died. Bled the fear and died before I could flop. Klandicar turned back towards Nalken because Osirous didn't hear that it needed more than 2 mallet charges. It turned around and warped through the wall. So we told our raid to run out to the front of the tunnel and kill it. It was an honest mistake by one tagger. It was iffy and could be seen as a violation.

However, we did not stay inside ToV, stall it and then zone out. WE were already buffed and prepping for Sontalak. We zoned out immediately. So the wording on this is a little odd.

Hoshkar- BDA kited Hoshkar for over 1 minute ping ponging back and forth to their raid. They then wiped and were recovering. We had an issue on the pull while they were dragging corpses. Hoshkar AE'd their raid but did not train them. They attacked Hoshkars pet but we pulled Hoshkar back away and he never touched their raid. No clue how we got hit with training BDA here.

Lady M- Pull went west and we immediately dropped it and let her start resetting for well over a minute. Rampage/Taken made no attempt to pull it. She got back to 4-way after this time and we repulled her after dropping the pull. Don't really understand the problem here. When you drop a pull and give the other guild an opportunity to pull and they don't. How long are you supposed to wait ?

Tormax- Same as Lady M. Pull warped and went towards EW. We dropped it and the other guild had an opportunity to pull and didn't. Again... How long are you supposed to wait ? No one has said anything clearly here. 1 minute ? 2 minutes ? No clue here. We witnessed Taken and Rampage train Dain to zone in 2 times and train multiple people the last Dain. They dropped it and picked it up 3 times before killing it while killing other people with trains. They still pulled and killed Dain without the other guild having an opportunity to pull.

Ikatiar- We started a Lady N pull to zone in on a Repop. BDA 45 seconds into this pull pulls Ikatiar after we train up and engages it in the front Hallway. Their pull cross aggroed the pull we already had started before them. Their pullers did not clear their aggro and didn't /q. The train came back to them and wiped both guilds. Who is at fault here ? The guild that didn't clear their pull aggro while pulling after we did or us ? They literally trained us with the same pull. Yet we are in trouble for it.

Did Asgard receive loot from all these encounters?

I know they were on the encounter logs for all as well as taking part in the planning, tracking and pulling of those mobs. Even updated them as 'kills' on their own Asgard guild thread.

Detoxx never responded to me when I asked him this question in the raid dicussion forum post that is now deleted and locked for no reason. Nemce also asked a reasonable question as well which is also deleted.

If you shared all the responsibilities AND the spoils of those kills with your allied partners why does it make any sense for them to not also be suspended along side of you too?

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We witnessed Taken and Rampage train Dain to zone in 2 times and train multiple people the last Dain. They dropped it and picked it up 3 times before killing it while killing other people with trains. They still pulled and killed Dain without the other guild having an opportunity to pull.

We alrdy conceded the next Dain for this error. Unlike other guilds who must utilize dat PetitionQuest to score wins.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We alrdy conceded the next Dain for this error. Unlike other guilds who must utilize dat PetitionQuest to score wins.

We were never offered the opportunity to concede. Glad you were. Unlike Rampage we give guilds that opportunity before petitioning.

[Legday]

Originally Posted by teija [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty sure if you kite a mob you should let it reset to its spawn point before any further attempt to re-engage. When u pull all of northwing into west where our raid force is pretty much blocking anyone from running up to 4-way from LTK it does not surprise me that we could not get FTE off ur kited mob in a min.

Ramp is told mob is dropped in ooc.
Ramp notices that in fact kite/mob/fte is dropped in west.
Ramp wiz trains up from LTK gates to sisters/trips, triggers FTE.
Ramp tagger gets a TL box and mallets mob at 4 way - takes TL.

20 seconds tops.

[azeth]

Originally Posted by Legday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ramp is told mob is dropped in ooc.
Ramp notices that in fact kite/mob/fte is dropped in west.
Ramp wiz trains up from LTK gates to sisters/trips, triggers FTE.
Ramp tagger gets a TL box and mallets mob at 4 way - takes TL.

20 seconds tops.

Or maybe dont engage shit you're not prepared to kill? You know, like non-amateurs.

[Legday]

Originally Posted by teija [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If the GMs let what you did slide it would be a slippery slope of future kiting/stalling. You know for a fact that your guild made a questionable call to retag that mob after you kited it. Should of just let it reset bro.

It's worth ironing out what a legit dropped kite looks like. Reset could be the answer. Seems like an awfully generous window to give though when the mob is dropped almost in your lap to begin with.