Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warrior monk rogue ench shaman cleric is not restricted to the whole “4 person all caster group” concept.

It isn’t relevant to this thread at all.

Moving goalposts again?

It's 100% relevant. You have to explain why a Shaman/Enchanter combo suddenly doesn't work in a four player caster group, but it works fine in a six player group.

Remember saying:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-shaman: gives you redundant slows you don’t need, heals you won’t need, buffs you won’t need, a pet that sucks and malo (value added). Dots will not add much as with 2 ench pets nothing is alive long. Malo is good but shamans don’t have a monopoly on this line. Shaman isn’t a terrible choice, but you’re bringing along a class that can’t contribute as much as other options

How does this nonsensical assesment change in your six player group example? It must change, because otherwise why would you pick a Shaman?

What are the strengths of an Enchanter/Shaman combo? Please explain.

[Vexenu]

Let's be honest, ENC/ENC/CLR is such a busted trio that the fourth player hardly matters, anyway. Assuming those first three are skilled players, whatever else you add at that point isn't really going to be carrying their weight in comparison. Mage would be nice for some extra DPS, but with two well-controlled charm pets it's kind of overkill. Necro adds some DPS and utility, but just like with the Mage, it's not really needed. This is why I like fortior's suggestion of the Wizard, because for leveling you don't really need to use him anyway (although he can still contribute somewhat with stuns on charm break, root CC, snares and flux staff aggro ripping), but at endgame he's suddenly super useful for mobility, TL boxes, Hate ports and burning down big mobs. ENC/ENC/CLR/XXX will be a powerful group regardless of the fourth man, but ENC/ENC/CLR/WIZ is a gank squad par excellence that really gets full value out of the Wiz more than any other class. Just four dudes just porting around Norrath sniping named at will.

[bcbrown]

Surely you'd agree that some combinations of classes can have synergy, while other combinations do not? For example, a duo of two paladins or a duo of two rogues has less synergy than a duo of a paladin and a rogue, because a rogues benefit from someone else tanking, while paladins are good tanks but do not really benefit from someone else tanking? Or, say a shaman has good synergy with any melee class, because the shaman has fantastic stat buffs that are helpful for any melee class?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Surely you'd agree that some combinations of classes can have synergy, while other combinations do not? For example, a duo of two paladins or a duo of two rogues has less synergy than a duo of a paladin and a rogue, because a rogues benefit from someone else tanking, while paladins are good tanks but do not really benefit from someone else tanking? Or, say a shaman has good synergy with any melee class, because the shaman has fantastic stat buffs that are helpful for any melee class?

That is essentially what I am asking Troxx. Maybe he'll answer you instead. He cannot explain why he thinks Shaman/Enchanter synnergies change based on group composition.

[bcbrown]

So you agree that shaman classes have a synergy with melee classes?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you agree that shaman classes have a synergy with melee classes?

We are discussing Shaman/Enchanter synnergies. I'll wait for Troxx to respond, as his assessment of Shamans doesn't match with his six player group composition.

[bcbrown]

Surely you cannot deny that shamans have a synergy with melee classes. Shamans have sta/str/agi/dex buffs no one else has.

The 6 player group has 3 out of 6 characters who have a melee synergy with shamans. The 4 player all-caster group has zero characters who have a melee synergy with shamans.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have to explain why a Shaman/Enchanter combo suddenly doesn't work in a four player caster group, but it works fine in a six player group.

These aren't the right claims. It's not "suddenly doesn't work", it's "is less valuable than some other class". It's not "works fine", it's "provides more value than any other class in this spot".

Troxx (or anyone) has to explain why a shaman is the best choice for that sixth spot in a six-player group with three melees, but is not the best choice for the fourth spot in a 4-player all-caster group. A suitable explanation is that when you add melee classes, shamans become better.

I'm not sure what Troxx would say, but I bet it's similar to my answer.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troxx (or anyone) has to explain why a shaman is the best choice for that sixth spot in a six-player group.

Indeed. That is what we are asking. We need to determine why Troxx has a discrepancy in his assessment of Shamans, and what his thoughts are about Shaman/Enchanter synnergies.

Then we can decide if his logic of why a Shaman doesn't work in the four man group has merit.

[bcbrown]

The "discrepancy" is that when you add melee classes, shamans become better.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The "discrepancy" is that when you add melee classes, shamans become better.

That is not Troxx's opinion, that is your opinion. I am asking for Troxx's opinion. Once we get that I'll be happy to discuss this point.