Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Gloomlord]

If I had a choice between a bit more damage and useless utility, I'd pick the DPS.

We explained this whole thread why Shaman is indeed not better than Mage in this scenario. Do we really have to repeat ourselves ad infinitum?

Also, no: I'd much prefer a Cleric over Shaman. Complete Heal > Torpor.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I had a choice between a bit more damage and useless utility, I'd pick the DPS.

We explained this whole thread why Shaman is indeed not better than Mage in this scenario. Do we really have to repeat ourselves ad infinitum?

Also, no: I'd much prefer a Cleric over Shaman. Complete Heal > Torpor.

Apparently you do, because you can't provide any evidence other than your opinion.

I am sorry, but you aren't getting any benefit from killing a mob 10 seconds faster on a 30 minute respawn. I'll take utility over useless DPS any day.

There is a reason why you don't see a lot of 6 player XP groups.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Apparently you do, because you can't provide any evidence other than your opinion.

I am sorry, but you aren't getting any benefit from killing a mob 10 seconds faster on a 30 minute respawn. I'll take utility over useless DPS any day.

I’m not sure why you’re basing your “dps breakpoint” and heal threshold on basically the fungi King. This is such a trivial mob. A naked cleric and half decent monk can kill it. I would assume it’s because you haven’t really stretched the limits.

Try something actually challenging like sleepers or hate. Torpor tanking isn’t going to fly. And you’re going to want as much dps as you get. Dps always leads to more kills, more safety, and potentially more downtime for player fatigue.

[Gloomlord]

But your utility as Shaman is useless, hence why extra DPS is better than nothing.

If a mob 10 seconds faster is pointless, then I'll grab a Druid for the utility that isn't redundant. You can't bring up "pocket class" or "Dial a Port" either, here. This is about 4 people trying to be the best they can possibly be.

Either way you slice it, you've lost the argument here. I call checkmate.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m not sure why you’re basing your “dps breakpoint” and heal threshold on basically the fungi King. This is such a trivial mob. A naked cleric and half decent monk can kill it. I would assume it’s because you haven’t really stretched the limits.

Try something actually challenging like sleepers or hate. Torpor tanking isn’t going to fly. And you’re going to want as much dps as you get. Dps always leads to more kills, more safety, and potentially more downtime for player fatigue.

Name a mob then. Obviously one a group of 4 can do.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But your utility as Shaman is useless, hence why extra DPS is better than nothing.

If a mob 10 seconds faster is pointless, then I'll grab a Druid for the utility that isn't redundant. You can't bring up "pocket class" or "Dial a Port" either, here. This is about 4 people trying to be the best they can possibly be.

Either way you slice it, you've lost the argument here. I call checkmate.

Just saying something is useless without evidence is useless. Unlike youself, I can tell you how much benefit you can get from the extra DPS, and it is not worth taking the Mage for. You are unable to explain why a Shaman is useless.

[Gloomlord]

The evidence is right before us.

Take one look at their spell book. It's redundant in a group with an Enchanter and Cleric.

What exactly are they bringing here that makes them more efficient than Mage in this composition? Nothing!

CHECK...MATE

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence is right before us.

Take one look at their spell book. It's redundant in a group with an Enchanter and Cleric.

What exactly are they bringing here that makes them more efficient than Mage in this composition? Nothing!

CHECK...MATE

2 Enchanters have the same spell book, and Clerics share Lull/Root/Stun with Enchanters. I cannot believe you think this argument makes you look good. You need to explain why the "redundancy" is a problem.

[Gloomlord]

You truly are impermeable to reason.

Yes, two enchanters share the same spell book. Yes, clerics have some overlapping spells. Guess what those two classes bring? Excellent DPS, the best CC and the best healing in the game.

A shaman is completely irrelevant here for a 4th member, for DPS, Utility and Healing.

How many times do we need to say this? Of course you're going to say "how can you prove it" when we proved it to you time and time again. But it doesn't matter, because we've already won the argument here and are only trying to make you admit the truth in vain.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You truly are impermeable to reason.

Yes, two enchanters share the same spell book. Yes, clerics have some overlapping spells. Guess what those two classes bring? Excellent DPS, the best CC and the best healing in the game.

A shaman is completely irrelevant here for a 4th member, for DPS, Utility and Healing.

How many times do we need to say this? Of course you're going to say "how can you prove it" when we proved it to you time and time again. But it doesn't matter, because we've already won the argument here and are only trying to make you admit the truth in vain.

Ah, so now redundancy isn't a bad thing?

Shamans bring excellent damage mitigation (which is why they are such good soloers) and can alleviate an Enchanter's mana problems by simply taking over some of their duties. With cannibalize their mana will last longer, which means they can do more. In an emergency situation, a Shaman is much tankier than a Cleric, and can help the group when you are fighting harder mobs, such as stun immune mobs. A Shaman can still output decent DPS without breaking a sweat to help stay above the DPS threshold, while a cleric is simply meditating. Malo reduces how many charm breaks there are too.

A group of 3-4 players without a Warrior is not fighting anything that needs CH. You aren't CH chaining a Warrior who is discing. With Slow + Torpor, you don't need to heal your pet at all, and the pet is doing more DPS because it doesn't need to tank.

You would know this if you actually had a point to make. Saying Shamans are "useless" is just a baseless opinion. I can still tell you how many seconds a Mage will save with 2x Enchanters DPSing, and it isn't relevant.