Please check my math on Troll vs Ogre Shaman

[DMN]

*** = server ticks

---You cast now just before server tick
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---This is where you end up, never getting to 24
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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*** = server ticks

-You cast now just before server tick
0***
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6***
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12***
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--This is where you end up, never getting to 24
24***

I am on my shaman right now, as we speak. I am consistently getting 5 ticks by casting Torpor on server tick.

The reason why spells like root ALWAYS last 8 ticks, is because the game logic specifically checks how many ticks root has lasted.

When a spell is NOT being checked for tick count, you can easily get a buff to slightly overlap on a tick. This is probably due to floating point precision and the clock speed of the server. This game isn't operating on an atomic clock. The timer on Torpor isn't EXACTLY 24 seconds. It is a bit over, or a bit under. Same with the tick. it isn't happening EXACTLY every 6 seconds. It is a bit over, or a bit under.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am on my shaman right now, as we speak. I am consistently getting 5 ticks by casting Torpor on server tick.

The reason why spells like root ALWAYS last 8 ticks, is because the game logic specifically checks how many ticks root has lasted.

When a spell is NOT being checked for tick count, you can easily get a buff to slightly overlap on a tick. This is probably due to floating point precision and the clock speed of the server. This game isn't operating on an atomic clock. The timer on Torpor isn't EXACTLY 24 seconds. It is a bit over, or a bit under. Same with the tick. it isn't happening EXACTLY every 6 seconds. It is a bit over, or a bit under.

Torpor and every other spell ENDS when the final tick is reached. The ticks are based on the server ticks, so all buffs/debuffs can theoretically last 5.99999999999... + 6 multiplied by the amount of ticks allotted for the spell duration. The buff/debuff duration doesn't matter tho because we are talking about HoTs/DoTs and their effect on life totals and they only update HP totals on server ticks for hots/dots. When the spell has encountered as many server ticks as the spell is supposed to last for, the spell ends.


Good god.i explain all of this shit in my first post about this and here I am again. No matter how you slice it, you can't get a 5th tick on a spell that only is supposed to last 4.

[kjs86z]

Ogre is the ultimate if you're going for big time solo targets.

Troll is best for solo leveling (does anyone really care about this though?)

For everything else...its 100% aesthetics.

I like being a polar bear, so my sham is barb.

[Sacer]

Saying regen on a 60 shaman is useless because you got torpor is as silly as saying you don't need clarity because you have torpor.

Most 60 shaman won't use regrowth or fungi anymore, of course they think the troll regen is not needed, that just show you that being 60 does not make you suddenly a good player.

[sonofbaal]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are wrong. I literally tested it in game. I have a Torpor Shaman. If you land Torpor right on the server tick, you get 5 ticks. It works exactly as I described in my previous post.

The problem is you think every spell in the game is using the same exact programming logic. It is not. Buffs like Aegolism, Regeneration, and Torpor do not get checked in the same way as a spell like root.

Does this mean I wait until I see a tick and then cast? or try to land the spell almost immediately after the server tick? How do you do this

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Torpor and every other spell ENDS when the final tick is reached. The ticks are based on the server ticks, so all buffs/debuffs can theoretically last 5.99999999999... + 6 multiplied by the amount of ticks allotted for the spell duration. The buff/debuff duration doesn't matter tho because we are talking about HoTs/DoTs and their effect on life totals and they only update HP totals on server ticks for hots/dots. When the spell has encountered as many server ticks as the spell is supposed to last for, the spell ends.


Good god.i explain all of this shit in my first post about this and here I am again. No matter how you slice it, you can't get a 5th tick on a spell that only is supposed to last 4.

Your problem is you do not understand programming, and you assume all spells are checked the same. Torpor is working as I described. It shows you are wrong in your assumptions. If all spells had a tick counter, Torpor would never be able to get a 5th tick. Evidence trumps your assumptions[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for Sonofbaal's question, the trick to getting a 5th tick on Torpor is to cast Torpor right when you see the tick come in. Torpor cast time is 6 seconds, so it will land as the next tick hits.

To Sacer, I never said regeneration was useless. I still use fungi staff with Torpor. The question here is which ability is more useful with Torpor. The answer is Frontal Stun Immunity, due to additional regeneration losing a lot of utility with Torpor. 8 HP regen is 4 Torpors per hour. That really isnt a big gain. Getting stunned less has more utility, due to an increased chance for that spell to land, and the ability to change what you are doing when you would otherwise be stunned.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Sacer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Saying regen on a 60 shaman is useless because you got torpor is as silly as saying you don't need clarity because you have torpor.

Most 60 shaman won't use regrowth or fungi anymore, of course they think the troll regen is not needed, that just show you that being 60 does not make you suddenly a good player.

I played the live version of Loramin through LDoN, and the version here for 5+ years. I won't claim to be "teh world's bestest Shaman", but I can safely say there is nothing "good" about casting a buff you don't need. When you imply players are bad for not casting Regrowth (or wearing a Fungi) ... you just sound like someone who hasn't played a 60 Shaman with Torpor.

I regularly solo A4 in PoM, one of the harder solo camps, with no Regrowth. I also own multiple Fungi Tunics, but don't wear one. Same thing with soloing the Crypt in Seb (although I might at least bother with Regrowth there if I'm doing all four rooms), or other hard 60 Shaman spots.

The simple truth is that level of regen doesn't decide whether you win or lose many fights. Torpor/Cann makes it so you virtually never lose these fights (which can last 5+ minutes) because you ran out of mana ... you lose them because of a series of "bad rolls" or mistakes on your part (eg. you get a string of slow resists). Similarly, if you do 100 A4 mobs, or Crypt mobs, or whatever with/without Troll regen, you'll likely have the same ratio of wins/deaths, because that regen won't help avoid death.

Now that's also true for Ogres and their FSI! But over the course of 1,000, or 10,000, or maybe 100,000 fights (I dunno exactly), you are going to have one where the RNG, a series of frontal stuns, and maybe some unlucky resists and/or interrupts also, combine to result in your death. In that one case you will survive if you're an Ogre and not if you're a Troll (or Barb/Iksar).

That is why Ogres are barely the best race ... at 60 with Torpor (quite possibly the minority of playtime for your average shaman, as it takes a long time to get there). But really it truly doesn't matter, as there is no "bad" Shaman race!

(Except, kind of, Iksar.)

[Baler]

taking damage(vs channeling skill) or being pushed by a mob can interrupt your spell cast
Ogre doesn't stop either of these. Ogre stops frontal stuns, not even 360 stun immunity.

If you're a decent shaman you'll have torpor rolling so even if you get stunned it wont matter. (race doesn't matter)
Troll regen is always giving you an edge. It's not only applying to a certain time span of seconds.

Troll is a better race than Ogre for shaman.
The difference boils down to.. Do I want a racial ability that
Works for a few seconds (frontal stun immunity) (only frontal)
or
works forever and can't be disabled (racial regen)

Another reason.. Troll get's dotted they're taking racial regen less damage per tick. Ogre is taking full damage per tick.

Troll racial regen benefits more situations than just a stun. (which it also benefits because if there is a server tick during that stun you'll get more hp back)

------------------
I checked my log for soloing Ayillish...
I was *Stunned 4 times total
The fight lasted 20 minutes

I was stunned for 8 seconds total over the whole fight.
200 server ticks happened, I gained 2,400 more HP than an ogre during this fight.

You tell me which race is better. I'm saying Troll is greater than Ogre.

[Sacer]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can safely say there is nothing "good" about casting a buff you don't need.

Again, it's like saying c2 is a waste cause you can kill the same thing without, but you do realise more mana = faster kills and if fights are quicker it's safer and you can kill more things? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

May be it's you that speak without having a 60 shaman with torpor. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


edit : oh and yeah I am one of those 60 shaman that wear fungi and bag vindi bp most of the time, and also cast regen on myself