Live EC tunnel feed - Page 4

Bidoof · #31 03-28-2013, 12:03 PM

I'm at work, so sorry if I don't try as hard as I usually do to be funny. I've said it at least twice now, but I'll give it a paragraph all its own in case you missed it.

He's not charging for access to the site. You can go to his site freely. He's got some pretty screenshots and stuff. He's charging for the logs, something readily available if you were sitting in EC all day too.

But yeah, I think we've both laid out our cases. At this point, we'd be going in circles if we continued on the same point. And I think I've earned enough billable hours. We'pl have to wait for the right honorable Sirken to render his verdict.

Gadwen · #32 03-28-2013, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bidoof [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm at work, so sorry if I don't try as hard as I usually do to be funny. I've said it at least twice now, but I'll give it a paragraph all its own in case you missed it.

He's not charging for access to the site. You can go to his site freely. He's got some pretty screenshots and stuff. He's charging for the logs, something readily available if you were sitting in EC all day too.

But yeah, I think we've both laid out our cases. At this point, we'd be going in circles if we continued on the same point. And I think I've earned enough billable hours. We'pl have to wait for the right honorable Sirken to render his verdict.

Your client was read his rights and already made the following incriminating statement.

Quote:

it's ready to open and accept few more people if some of you are interested and may want to pay plats for the service, it's subscription based.

Please PM me your in-game name for the URL

He is clearly charging plat to access the website.

But honestly, I don't have anything against the guy and you have been giving me some laughs with your defense. My main issue with it is, as cliche as it sounds, it's a slippery slope that I think will only have a negative impact on the server. But you are right, its up to the GMs from here.

Bidoof · #33 03-28-2013, 12:32 PM

I would like to point out his "service" is referring to sharing logs. Not access to his site. Not that incriminating.
Sorry, I'll let deliberations continue.

Bidoof · #34 03-28-2013, 12:50 PM

If you look carefully, my client's website is a subdomain of a cloud service. My client is using his pre-existing cloud space for a fun diversion. If he didn't host his log service on a provider he already pays in full (ie: no cost for this), he could just as easily move it to a free service. Is Angelfire still around?

More broadly, owning a domain costs real life money, obviously. Let's say Player 1 owns a site dedicated to p1999, say 'p1999awesomesauce.com'. Do you call RMT the first time someone uses this site to offer an in-game service for in-game compensation, just because at some point 'some' real life money had to have changed hands for the site to run?

Interesting arguments. I like them, keep it coming. Now I wish I actually was getting billable hours.

Gadwen · #35 03-28-2013, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bidoof [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More broadly, owning a domain costs real life money, obviously. Let's say Player 1 owns a site dedicated to p1999, say 'p1999awesomesauce.com'. Do you call RMT the first time someone uses this site to offer an in-game service for in-game compensation, just because at some point 'some' real life money had to have changed hands for the site to run?

Does p1999awesomesauce.com charge a monthly/weekly/daily plat fee to access it?

Bidoof · #36 03-28-2013, 01:05 PM

No, but neither does my client's site (an argument I can now say that I've told you 3 times now[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ).

Gadwen · #37 03-28-2013, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bidoof [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, but neither does my client's site (an argument I can now say that I've told you 3 times now[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ).

The problem is that it's an invalid argument. You are giving him plat to access his website, he isn't just sending you tells or running in game errands for you. The issue is not with the information, it is the method which you are obtaining that information, which on his private subscription based website.

Your only paying for his logs sounds a lot like the old "your only paying for my old sweater but im throwing in this EQ account as a free gift" line.

Bidoof · #38 03-28-2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadwen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your only paying for his logs sounds a lot like the old "your only paying for my old sweater but im throwing in this EQ account as a free gift" line.

You've obviously never bought an OEM version of a Windows operating system. This is a totally valid semantic argument. Go on newegg.com, look up "Windows OEM". I'll wait.

...

Ok, you'll see they charge significantly less money for the same operating system. How? They bundle it with hardware. Its a piece of shit hardware, sure (I got a sound cable for old CD-ROM drives with Windows 7), but it fits the requirement. Not saying your example is all that great (its hard to come up with an analogy that fits everything), but your example is something that's already done every day. Maybe not with EQ or p1999 (I keep hearing about something with an old GM and muffins, but I wasn't around for that), but its a valid argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by windo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shit counter-argument. You're basically saying that he's paying for the cloud service without the primary intent of hosting his log service therefore the real-life money paid for the subscription in no way is going towards providing the means to generate platinum revenue on p1999. Even if your client moved his log service to free hosting, he's still performing IRL work incentivized by in-game profit, which is, in essence, RMT. Regardless, as you pointed out a domain name costs real money and therefore it would seem an object with real world valued is being used to generate in-game platinum.

Ok, at least I wasn't the first one to use "shit" for no reason in what's been a pretty civil discussion. The first part of your argument needs to be fleshed out (why am I giving pointers?). If I pay for a faster internet connection at home so I can download movies faster, and it just so happens that later I realize I can use it to log in slightly faster and nab that mob spawn so I can sell the drop, that's real life money paid to generate platinum revenue on p1999. See, I can come up with imperfect analogies. Anyway, I'll wait for you to flesh this one out before going further on it.

The second part of your argument (where *if* it was hosted on a free service) is where you're strongest, if you all continue to ignore the whole "work was free" reply I keep making. But first off, I'd say RMT is the opposite of what you say. Its performing in-game work incentivized by IRL profit. I could argue that my IRL job (which luckily doesn't look to see my internet history) leads to in-game profit- how would I have a computer to play p1999 without money? But broader than that, 'IRL work' is ambiguous. No one in authority (though I'm sure you'll tell me what you, opposing counsel, think) has said what this is.

But to bracket this with the same thing for clarity, my client still asserts his work on the programming and the hosting is free to the consumer. The fee is merely for the in-game presence of his or a friend's character. There are many real life scenarios where this sort of arrangement happens. If you want longer posts, I'll be more than happy to give one, just let me know.

Also, please let me know if I'm missing any arguments you guys are making (or remaking). I'm trying not to gloss over them.

Gadwen · #39 03-28-2013, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bidoof [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've obviously never bought an OEM version of a Windows operating system. This is a totally valid semantic argument. Go on newegg.com, look up "Windows OEM". I'll wait.

As a matter of fact I have bought OEM versions of Windows. None of them came with a piece of hardware...If you can actually find one on newegg that does, go ahead and link it. The disclaimer hasn't changed in years from what I can tell.

This issue really isn't that complicated, the bottom line is that you must give this guy plat in order to access this website, is that not true?

Droog007 · #40 03-28-2013, 03:29 PM

I had to pay real money for a new SSD so I could kite with my bard... am I transmuting RL money into in-game plat?? AM I RMT'ing??? /faint

(court goes to recess while the gallery member regains his composure)