Why are you here?

[Mcbard]

I've spent almost every waking moment of my post-eq life searching for something to fill the terribly dark void within myself that the loss of early EQ had created. I found the only thing that can properly fill it, heroin. As to why I came back: I loved this game and still find it very enjoyable even if, for the time being, I am more casual and less hardcore than in days gone by.

[William_Munny15]

I play on P99 cuz they give me dough, no dough no play

[Darkrainhunter]

I Started playing in 1999 and Loved EQ. I thought Luclin sucked, so I played DAoC and I really liked it when lots did RVR. DAoC started to suck and tried to play PoP and after realizing that getting flagged for planes was more like work than fun, I gave up on EQ.

I really hoped EQ2 would bring back the things I loved about EQ. It failed, then like a month or so after release some of the things I thought were cool and challenging i.e. passing a challenge to become your class and to get into certain zones.

I can't tell you how happy I am to be playing classic again!

[stormlord]

When I first came here, I thought it was better. Thing is, it's a very subjective thing to say that this version of EQ is better than todays version. First off, todays version is a different game altogether. They've changed so many mechanics and added so many and changed where you go. Second, difficulty is measured differently for different players and if you're not happy with the standard level-up model where people go through the tutorial and tss zones and hotzones then you're free in todays EQ to do more difficult things. Lastly, there shouldn't be any doubt that todays EQ has more UI functionality, better support for modern computers and better gfx.

I think the biggest misconception about todays EQ is that it's easier. While I think that it's easier in some ways, I think that it all balances out when you sum it all up. Yes, there're mercenaries and pots and guild lobby summoners and powerful items (defiant armor/weapons) and so on, but most players use these upgrades to play in harder content. They're not playing in 1999-02 zones most of the time. Keep in mind here that, generally, the newer the expansion is the harder the mobs are to kill. So while they're beefy compared to what htey might have been in 1999-02, they're also playing in harder content so the upgrade in power isn't as noticeable. And another important factor is that todays EQ gets harder and harder the higher your level is. It was like this in 1999-02 EQ as well. So by the time you get close to level cap you're looking for groups not soloing. If people are comparing the difficulty of todays EQ only during hte low levels then they're missing hte mark bigtime. Another thing I see is vets complaining that noobs level up so fast. Well, so what? There're 90 levels now and 5000 aa's. That's a lot more ground to cover so naturally they will level up faster. Duh!

While I can't say that EQ in 1999-02 is better than EQ circa 2010, I can say I liked some of the older EQ things more than I like how they're implemented or not implemented in new EQ. For example, in old EQ most people couldn't breathe underwater. I liked that. I like an environment that's dangerous. I liked hitting lava in lavastorm and getting burnt. I liked falling to my death in Velk's labyrinth. Those kinds of things challenged me to play smarter. I don't like how they were made less and less a concern as EQ matured or as you leveled. For example, lots of items allowed you to breathe underwater and levitate was something you could buy as a potion. Many of hte zones changed too and seemed more linear. I mean, compare upper/lower guk to a zone like toskirak (sof) or some of hte newer zones. There's something much less linear about guk and similar old zones. All in all, this is just one example. And something else relating to zones are the maps. One thing I like about p1999 is that some zones don't have maps and your group doesn't show on the map window. While I know this is inconvenient for some, I actually like this because it puts a lot more value on people who know the zones and communicate well with their group. And, oh, I like how in 1999-02 EQ the homecities are still important and serve as gateways for new players into the world. The racial cultures still matter! Hard to pull off with a low population, though. And something I've seen overlooked by others in the wars about who is best is that WOW had racial homecities that were still used. This was the case even when most new players in EQ were starting in the tutorial and going through TSS zones and living in POK. Odd isn't it that features of 1999-02 EQ are present in some of the best modern games but weren't in modern EQ. One final example of something I liked is how 1999-02 EQ items could be traded and sold, Most of them weren't no drop. In todays EQ most things are attunable or no trade or no drop. While this prevents items from swamping the market, it's lame. I think the primary reason for it was to limit plat/item sellers and hackers. I think it's like sacrificing freedom for security, but at the cost of fun.

I recently played on live earlier this year in jan/feb 2010.

I'd encourage people to try out live EQ and go to cap before judging it prematurely.

I think House of Thule ($40, includes all expansions; adds houses) is looking to be a good expansion so far.

I voted Pffft. Free EQ.

[Maneuk]

Because the death penalty made you a better player.

35 and die-ing just past the zone in at lower guk, 2 clerics, 1 cleric and a wizard were from another guild that wanted to "see" how we grouped. and a train comes. while Me- the mage- grabbed aggro because the MT was down in health and not getting healed- especially since the second cleric (OUR cleric) was getting aggro because of his trying to heal the MT, Druid was oom, chanter was working. I took chanters and OUR clerics aggro knowing if I could hold it, chanter would have time to work. if all went south, Druid may have enough to port. If I died, a nice escort back to our camp, with a heathy and armored MT, Cleric and at least a druid 9 the chanter was expecting to die) would be a better place to be.

Instead, wizard is sitting- watching. cleric 2 (THEIR cleric) is ....watching full mana and healing nobody.......

We delicately asked- at our wipe- the wizard and cleric were able to zone, btw, and mysteriously the cleric had to camp- it's 11[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]m in RL, we have jobs we have to get to bed so we had to camp like the cleric. Wizard swore he was about to port us all. regardless the next days corpse run was not fun.

We never grouped with them again, they formed a guild that then soon faded- for a while the wizard was all " we are family, right" trying to spooge off of our happenstance of a bond that formed from playerability.

We were polite, as the seasons went by, helping when it was no too out of the way or if we happened to run into them, say in Nurga/Droga, or Kael. but never, ever did anything "serious" with them again.

one corpse run like that, and you learn.

Some say Fear was the big training ground for that kind of lesson, if those others learned that lesson then at the age to go into Fear, it was too late- they were "less than". You become a better player, before, when younger, and elarning in dungeons, then by the time you get to fear- your first break in is no problem.

[Madigan]

Originally Posted by Teseer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The immersion. No other game has even TOUCHED EQ in immersion for me.

Same for me.

[Messianic]

lots of TL;DR here

[Engraverwilliam]

Ww;TR well worth the read IMHO

[Combo]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When I first came here, I thought it was better. Thing is, it's a very subjective thing to say that this version of EQ is better than todays version. First off, todays version is a different game altogether. They've changed so many mechanics and added so many and changed where you go. Second, difficulty is measured differently for different players and if you're not happy with the standard level-up model where people go through the tutorial and tss zones and hotzones then you're free in todays EQ to do more difficult things. Lastly, there shouldn't be any doubt that todays EQ has more UI functionality, better support for modern computers and better gfx.

I think the biggest misconception about todays EQ is that it's easier. While I think that it's easier in some ways, I think that it all balances out when you sum it all up. Yes, there're mercenaries and pots and guild lobby summoners and powerful items (defiant armor/weapons) and so on, but most players use these upgrades to play in harder content. They're not playing in 1999-02 zones most of the time. Keep in mind here that, generally, the newer the expansion is the harder the mobs are to kill. So while they're beefy compared to what htey might have been in 1999-02, they're also playing in harder content so the upgrade in power isn't as noticeable. And another important factor is that todays EQ gets harder and harder the higher your level is. It was like this in 1999-02 EQ as well. So by the time you get close to level cap you're looking for groups not soloing. If people are comparing the difficulty of todays EQ only during hte low levels then they're missing hte mark bigtime. Another thing I see is vets complaining that noobs level up so fast. Well, so what? There're 90 levels now and 5000 aa's. That's a lot more ground to cover so naturally they will level up faster. Duh!

While I can't say that EQ in 1999-02 is better than EQ circa 2010, I can say I liked some of the older EQ things more than I like how they're implemented or not implemented in new EQ. For example, in old EQ most people couldn't breathe underwater. I liked that. I like an environment that's dangerous. I liked hitting lava in lavastorm and getting burnt. I liked falling to my death in Velk's labyrinth. Those kinds of things challenged me to play smarter. I don't like how they were made less and less a concern as EQ matured or as you leveled. For example, lots of items allowed you to breathe underwater and levitate was something you could buy as a potion. Many of hte zones changed too and seemed more linear. I mean, compare upper/lower guk to a zone like toskirak (sof) or some of hte newer zones. There's something much less linear about guk and similar old zones. All in all, this is just one example. And something else relating to zones are the maps. One thing I like about p1999 is that some zones don't have maps and your group doesn't show on the map window. While I know this is inconvenient for some, I actually like this because it puts a lot more value on people who know the zones and communicate well with their group. And, oh, I like how in 1999-02 EQ the homecities are still important and serve as gateways for new players into the world. The racial cultures still matter! Hard to pull off with a low population, though. And something I've seen overlooked by others in the wars about who is best is that WOW had racial homecities that were still used. This was the case even when most new players in EQ were starting in the tutorial and going through TSS zones and living in POK. Odd isn't it that features of 1999-02 EQ are present in some of the best modern games but weren't in modern EQ. One final example of something I liked is how 1999-02 EQ items could be traded and sold, Most of them weren't no drop. In todays EQ most things are attunable or no trade or no drop. While this prevents items from swamping the market, it's lame. I think the primary reason for it was to limit plat/item sellers and hackers. I think it's like sacrificing freedom for security, but at the cost of fun.

I recently played on live earlier this year in jan/feb 2010.

I'd encourage people to try out live EQ and go to cap before judging it prematurely.

I think House of Thule ($40, includes all expansions; adds houses) is looking to be a good expansion so far.

I voted Pffft. Free EQ.

Yeah, I played live a year ago on Mayong (51/50) which was a mistake, because it turned out to be an "alt" server, not a serious one.

It wasn't the horrible nightmare many would have you believe, in all honesty.

Two major issues caused every change in EQ:

-Feature creep. Oh boy, this is the big one. The yearly expansions added at least one new feature, many outdated or pointless by the time I started, but all shown on your character screen By-expansion currency, tribute, shrouds corpse summoners, crazy new meta-stats, and all kinds of factions you'll never actually do anything with because it's second-hate pointless.

AA is one of the most demonized changes, but it was supposed to be a stop-gap to actually PREVENT inflation by giving max-level players something to do when they had the best gear. The problem was, AA wasn't enough. People wanted shinies over AA. As a result, gear power increased exponentially from expansion to expansion, not linearly like it was in Classic to (arguably) Luclin.

-Mudflation. When I started, I went to the Bazaar (which isn't really a bad mechanic) and looked for stuff like a Glowing Black Stone, Blackened Iron Medallion, etc. You know, typical trilogy twink caster stuff. It largely didn't exist. Why? Because there was this new "Tiered" armor that drown you in crazy stats that dropped from mobs your level. No longer did you see Cloth armor dropping at level 1, instead you got armor with +5 STA +5 INT +10 HP +10 Mana, Burning Affliction, Spell Haste, and whatever else. The item tip almost filled the whole box.

Simultaneously, so many of the zones were just EMPTY... but what do you expect with something crazy like 500 zones in the game? I ran to Blackburrow (I mean, where else would you go? Gnoll fangs rock!) and found it totally deserted. Same with any lowbie progression dungeon. After asking global chat WTF was going on, they told me to go to the Serpent's Spine zones, where every mob is a massive undercon in order to try to keep the lowbie challenge in line with classic EQ.


Sony responded to these problems by implementing mechanics to make up for the rapid content inflation. More specifically, they made things more convenient to support a game that simply lacked the population to maintain the old ways.

+PoK/Free Teleportation/Boat Removal. There was no reliable method of spamming for ports in your home city anymore because no one was there. If you're an Iksar and your friend is an Erudite, how the hell are you going to meet up when a Druid or Wizard who is high enough to port shows up in Field of Bone or QHills maybe once every 48 hours?

However, Travel is difficult in the newer content. Ports are still worth something, but only in the newest stuff.

+Mercenaries. Overpowered as they are, it's a great idea. No one wanted to level a Warrior or Cleric anymore, and there were so few low-level players that it didn't even matter. Now, for an constant plat fee, you can hire one that is probably more competent than a real person -- up to a certain level.

+Corpse summoning. If you die in OOT on p99, it's scary as hell, but there are often people around who can help, or you can bribe a Necromancer to summon your corpse. If you die in OOT on live, well, first of all, why were you in OOT? Second of all, everyone is so spread out that it's really, really hard to talk someone into making such a long trip to summon some newb's corpse. Instead, throw 50plat at the corpse summoner, beg for a Rez in the hall, and away you go.

+Hot Zones. You might actually see someone your level!

+Other shit that made the game less of a chore. Removal of shared Hybrid XP penalties. Removal of all class penalties, because they were balancing with all classes in mind anyway. Removal of all race penalties, because they decided players shouldn't be punished for wanting to look like what they wanted to look like. /melody because Bards were suing SOE for carpal tunnel injuries.

For some reason, people get mad at the band-aids, not the cuts under them. They scream about PoK or Nexus but don't understand that there was no longer a "hub" like EC for the game, or that there were so many zones at that point that finding a pocket Druid or Wizard was next to impossible. SOE has always been trying to bring things back in line with the Classic high-challenge, group-reliant (well, for some classes) focus. The problem is, you have to take the bait (you're essentially forced to start in Serpent's Spine if you want to see another human being, plus all the mobs are a joke anywhere else) to get that feeling.





In the end, Classic EQ and EQ Live may as well be totally different games. The cause? The developers gave the players what they said they wanted.




How the hell do you "do this right?" Instead of adding may-as-well-be-mandatory-to-keep-up starting zones, you blow the entire old world the fuck up and re-design it to fit the high end. Instead of adding AA, you trim the fat from class abilities while simultaneously making formerly ho-hum abilities much more interesting. You don't just *let* players solo Nagafen, you either wipe him out or have him move to a different area and become a new level-cap raid with different mechanics.

In other words, Blizzard learned from the decline of EQ and found one hell of a ballsy solution to the inevitable inflation that happens to every MMO. I certainly hope it works.

[Engraverwilliam]

Combo you summed up every reason I left EQ live