sham question PLZ ^^

[Jarnauga]

Originally Posted by brecon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every 14 ticks you need to refresh your epic, and it costs about 1.5 ticks casting time. Lets consider what you do between epics clicks.

If you chain clicked your JBB you will do 263 damage every 8 seconds...or about 2985 damage in 90 seconds. Assuming zero resists and zero bash interrupts, and assuming you don't cast anything else over this period. If the mob is not a summoner, then you will need to either keep rooting or eat some hits.

Bane costs 425 mana. It does 1648 damage in 42 seconds (7 ticks). So if you cast 2x Bane, you would do more damage than the JBB over those 15 ticks. Bane takes 5 seconds to cast.

To recoup the mana cost from bane (425 mana), you would need to canni 4 six times, taking about 15 seconds. You would then need to topor once (200 mana, 6 seconds) which means 3 more cannis to recoup the mana, taking 6 seconds to cast.

To Recoup:
Spam JBB: ~3000 damage in 1.5 minutes mana neutral, barring interrupts and reroots. No free time.

Bane, Canni dance and Bane: ~3200 damage in 1.5 minutes mana and hp neutral. The total time casting (barring interrupts) is 42 seconds.

Bane + Canni dance gives you almost 48 additional seconds in which you can cast additional buffs (Pox!), canni dance more to rebuff and refresh slow, etc.

Now, IF YOU WANTED, you could use those 42 seconds to cast a few JBBs. But this is why I don't think JBB is a game breaker. Bane + Canni provides more damage with less time and less root breaks than JBB, and give you more time (therefore more flexibility).

I definitely agree with you. Great post. The issue with your post is that it only works when you're root/rotting and dmg output is the only thing you're worrying about.

Now go solo a summoning mob you have to slow/tank with a lot of hp that hits like a truck (say lodizal). You have to worry about healing yourself regularly and not canni too much to survive the next round of hits, and be conservative with mana to actually down the 35k hp of the mob. Add to this the slows and malo you'll have to refresh..

Let's say you're using pox and bane on this case. You're gonna have to malo (350 mana), slow (250 mana assuming you don't have any resists if you're very lucky), pox (430), bane (425), and then epic for 9 secs where you gonna get hit, double for 300+ dmg if you're lucky, probably gonna have to torpor right away so 200 mana.

There, you just used 1655 mana ( around half your mana pool if you have pretty good gear and in a ideal scenario with no resists) to do 5k dmg.. Not even 15% of the health of the mob. Now canni away while it's hitting for up to 400 to recast all that. You're gonna have to canni 17 times (more than that actually) with canni IV and lose 2,5k hp in the process. I'm wielding ToV gear and have 2,7k hp self buffed at best. Yes, with a mob hitting that hard, you're gonna have to torpor yourself in the process, and not just once.

You see where i'm getting at ? Now forget all the mana from pox and bane. You'll see that it's doable. So i stand by what i said earlier. You don't need jbb, it just opens lot of possibilities for soloing tough mobs.

[brecon]

@Jarnauga - if you are dealing with a summoning mob like Lodi, then the JBB makes even less sense to me because of the chance to bash or push interrupt. Especially Lodi, where there are not a lot of good corners/walls, the chances of getting pushed on an 8-second cast is very high. Maybe a corner-casting ogre has more utility out of a JBB than a Barbarian like I am, but again, the math doesn't add up to me.

Ideally for a summoning mob you whip out your pet, buff him, and keep the mob occupied on the pet which gives you the flexibiity to torpor yourself without taking hits, and to change out spells. Then you cast or, for a belly caster, run in to cast periodically.

In the scenario where the pet can't hold aggro you want to be more conservative with your playstyle...when I solo Tranix for example I start my Torpors around 70% and Canni fast. The goal when dealing with hard-hitting summoners is to keep HP and Mana as high as possible, while dealing some damage....shamans kill big names by outlasting the opponent.

Simply recouping the initial mana takes awhile, assuming a solo pull: Malo, Slow, Root, Epic click, Insidious Decay, Pox, and a Torpor probably. After that is set I will try to start canni-ing back my mana. Hopefully my pet took aggro so I don't take hits, and I toss my pet an occasional torpor. Just getting back my mana to a more comfortable spot will take me like a minute or two, and by that time I need to refresh epic and pox. I haven't even bothered to malosini or bane the mob yet.

So again, I don't see where the JBB really makes a big difference. I agree with the other poster, the place where JBB is good utility for a 60 shaman with spells is to finish off mobs at like 2% hp when I don't have a pet out, or for camping low-level stuff like a Goblin Earring.

[Lojik]

The real answer is:
You literally can't make a bad race choice. Either you can use jbb (which some people love) or you have an ac bonus unaffected by soft cap +regen. I went troll, have crappy gear for a 60 shm with torpor/pox/bane/canni iv, and have no problems soloing dragons that hit for 300+ without a jbb. Most dragons i can keep pox/bane/ and epic up and usually dispatch in 10 minutes.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I definitely agree with you. Great post. The issue with your post is that it only works when you're root/rotting and dmg output is the only thing you're worrying about.

Now go solo a summoning mob you have to slow/tank with a lot of hp that hits like a truck (say lodizal). You have to worry about healing yourself regularly and not canni too much to survive the next round of hits, and be conservative with mana to actually down the 35k hp of the mob. Add to this the slows and malo you'll have to refresh..

Let's say you're using pox and bane on this case. You're gonna have to malo (350 mana), slow (250 mana assuming you don't have any resists if you're very lucky), pox (430), bane (425), and then epic for 9 secs where you gonna get hit, double for 300+ dmg if you're lucky, probably gonna have to torpor right away so 200 mana.

There, you just used 1655 mana ( around half your mana pool if you have pretty good gear and in a ideal scenario with no resists) to do 5k dmg.. Not even 15% of the health of the mob. Now canni away while it's hitting for up to 400 to recast all that. You're gonna have to canni 17 times (more than that actually) with canni IV and lose 2,5k hp in the process. I'm wielding ToV gear and have 2,7k hp self buffed at best. Yes, with a mob hitting that hard, you're gonna have to torpor yourself in the process, and not just once.

You see where i'm getting at ? Now forget all the mana from pox and bane. You'll see that it's doable. So i stand by what i said earlier. You don't need jbb, it just opens lot of possibilities for soloing tough mobs.

I was with you up to the point that you lie and say you'd use the jbb more efficiently in this scenario lol while you're Cani/torpping and not jbb'ing my dots are killing the mob. While you're jbb'ing and not Cani torpping the mob is killing you and all you're doing is 1 dots worth of dps.

You just haven't actually used this strat. That's why you don't know it doesn't work lol I bet you haven't even soloed tranix

[Jarnauga]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was with you up to the point that you lie and say you'd use the jbb more efficiently in this scenario lol while you're Cani/torpping and not jbb'ing my dots are killing the mob. While you're jbb'ing and not Cani torpping the mob is killing you and all you're doing is 1 dots worth of dps.

You just haven't actually used this strat. That's why you don't know it doesn't work lol I bet you haven't even soloed tranix

I did. In kunark gear.

I'm done talking with someone who can't hear someone disagreeing without insulting him..

Seeing your post history, it seems it's an habit.. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did. In kunark gear.

I'm done talking with someone who can't hear someone disagreeing without insulting him..

Seeing your post history, it seems it's an habit.. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no the truth is i have done both and i can tell you from experience that your strat sounds good but in execution does not work as you insist it does.

I know what its like, you like imagine this cool class and feature, and it sounds so cool, but then when you do it you're like, meh this isn't as efficient as I thought it would be, because I wasn't accounting for mob behavior etc.

you describe a fight with a mob perfectly, especially the need to keep your mana up. But the truth is, dot/cani/torp/cani/dot is more efficient than JBB spam, it just is.

[Malrubius]

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real answer is:
You literally can't make a bad race choice. Either you can use jbb (which some people love) or you have an ac bonus unaffected by soft cap +regen. I went troll, have crappy gear for a 60 shm with torpor/pox/bane/canni iv, and have no problems soloing dragons that hit for 300+ without a jbb. Most dragons i can keep pox/bane/ and epic up and usually dispatch in 10 minutes.

Has anybody posted (or can they here?) a decently complete list of soloable/worthwhile high-level mobs for a 60 shammy to try? I just got mine to 58 and am starting to raise my sights (I know, I don't have torpor yet, and realize that my options will be far more limited for now).

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Malrubius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Has anybody posted (or can they here?) a decently complete list of soloable/worthwhile high-level mobs for a 60 shammy to try? I just got mine to 58 and am starting to raise my sights (I know, I don't have torpor yet, and realize that my options will be far more limited for now).

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ht=solo+artist

[Malrubius]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ht=solo+artist

Thanks. Useful, but old...just wish Velious mobs were included. Guessing they're somewhere in the 100+ page thread.

[Raev]

I have access to a L60 ogre shaman, and I thought about gearing him up to solo the puppet camp. I did some math and concluded that, even slowed, the puppets would do nearly 300 damage per tick. So I would probably be bleeding mana just keeping myself alive, and the JBB/epic would be the main sources of damage.