Mink damage vs hybrids

[Ivory]

Was just a random example of a farm camp :P

I never saw monks down camping frenzied ghoul in guk for FBSS either.

The point is just monks are nice....but they aren't crazy uber best DPS in the world and best tankers 10/10 would monk again. They have a nice mix of abilities, but they aren't banana kings of EQ.

[nyclin]

No they're just the best non-disc tanks in the game while bringing 50-65dps, self-heal, and FD. Monks are disgustingly OP and not even in the same league as SK/PAL or RNG in terms of tanking ability or mechanical potential.

And yes, time-to-kill absolutely matters in high end raiding. You aren't killing AoW or Tunare if your clerics run OOM before the DPS can finish it. 17 seconds could be the difference between a wipe and success.

[Lowako]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is strange how people get into this hyper min/max mentality, where a slight difference in DPS and efficiency in killing a mob is what makes a class good or not.

10 people on a raid, let's say overall DPS is 300 (average 30dps each) (but usually in a raid you will have more, so the percentage goes even further down)

A monk joins in, he is UBAARRRRR with 45dps!!! ((but likely the dps isn't really close to double of a rangers equally geared, but I'm being really generous))

Overall dps is 315 now.....an entire increase of 5%. So, a fight that would have taken 360 seconds....now takes 343 seconds .....

In everquest terms, it doesn't mean much (especially higher end raids where more often than not you have way overkill). The mob is still going to die, in 360 seconds or 343 seconds.....everyone still gets pixels....

Is that really the definition of uber we are talking about? :P Ranger, monk, paladin, SK....all uber enough if you gear it and get the high end weapons. Play what you like, put in the time and get gear, and you can "compete" at the high end (IE play a decent role in DPSing the thing down).

I would be really curious to see an SKs dps with pet compared to a monks though. Anyone have numbers to back up their claims on uber monks?

Personally I like paladins / rangers a lot since they are handy off-healers and CC (helps if things get crazy to be able to root off of an enchanter or patch someone). I've saved many a person with just ranger heals :P

Using raids isn't a particularly great example, throw enough bodies at anything and it will die. But, sticking to this scenario, you can achieve 300 dps with 6.7~ monks, or 10 hybrids, but who cares because either way they're gettin crushed in damage by rogues. But wait, this is a raid and you need people to split and pull the raid monsters. And hybrids simply cannot pull as effectively as monks. Also, at the "high end" sk/pal are competing with bards in terms of dpsing the thing down, and thats just raw melee, not considering everything else a bard can do.

Tune that group size down to a duo, the monk is now adding a 50% damage increase, wowza. On top of this, monks are vastly superior tanks, and will take much less damage than equally (or even better) geared hybrids. Even in 6 man groups its a pretty significant benefit. Healer mana when doing stuff with smaller numbers becomes even more important, so being able to mitigate damage better becomes huge.

Rooting things off of healers is valuable, but literally everyone can do that if they carry root nets (which most people have no reason not to, very cheap to recharge, 0.1 wt, instant cast). While technically not a part of the monk class, every monk (and rogue, and everyone really) should try to carry some of those for those "oh shit" moments. Besides, if you are good at being a monk you probably wont need to root things off the healer anyways.

The usefulness of FD, mend, and being the best tank (aside from warriors in disc) in the game cannot be stressed enough. While hybrids arent as abysmal as most think, you are really selling monks raw power short. Also, the reason you rarely see a monk doing something like frenzy or goofy pom shit is because they can find a healer friend (playing with others in an mmo!) and do things that are much more fun/effecient/lucrative. Play what/how you want in this game, but no amount of gear/skill/technique is going to change the core game mechanics.

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by Lowako [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Play what/how you want in this game, but no amount of gear/skill/technique is going to change the core game mechanics.

Gear changes the expected core game limitations of classes. It lets you do crazy stuff like try to make a caster tank. Though the higher up you go, the less you are able to break stuff like that.

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by notColgate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

are you trying to be contrarian or are you just genuinely stupid?

You better watch out!! My dad can beat up your dad!!!!

[maskedmelon]

Monks can also level to 60 naked while doing all of these things.