Loughner declined from the army, but passed a background check to buy a gun?

[mitic]

Originally Posted by Peatree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree with banning them -- but I do think it needs to be harder to obtain one...

i dont know a single civilian person in europe owning a gun nor do i know anyone whos ever been shot here

ban them guns in america, noone needs them except to invade iraq or any other 3rd world country

[Lazortag]

Trimm, it's true that crazies will always go through illegal channels to acquire guns. Hell, even where guns are legal, criminals buy guns off the black market because they're harder to trace back to them and be used as evidence against them in a trial. However, it's also true that where guns are legal, normal people who would ostensibly want guns for security reasons might have lapses in judgment and use their guns stupidly (like if someone walks in on their significant other cheating on them with someone else, and has a gun, etc.) While I think it's a bit silly to attribute the ease with which someone can get a gun in the U.S. to its high violent crime rate (as some people in this thread are doing), I'm sure you'll find that more gun ownership trends towards slightly more violent crime (which means that some places where guns are illegal might still have higher rates of violent crime than places where it's legal, but in general the places where it's legal to own a gun will have higher incidences of crime).

I think that guns are very different from SUV's (or baseball bats, knives, and other examples of objects that *could* also be used to hurt people) because they're very efficient at killing people, and they serve no purpose other than that. The utility of being able to own a car outweighs the fact that some people are able/willing to do unconscionable things with one, and even if it didn't, a car is less of a threat to the state's monopoly on violence than gun ownership is (since taking out the tires of an SUV is probably way easier than pinpointing a shooter in a huge crowd of people). Also, banning cars, or knives, or lighters, or whatever, just because they *can* be dangerous is unfair for those who use them innocently, whereas there's no "innocent" way to use a gun.

So in short, you can defend yourself with a baseball bat, or a knife, or whatever, because it's not conventionally recognized as a weapon and less likely to be used in a malicious way, while also having many non-malicious uses. Guns, on the other hand, are normally perceived as weapons and are more likely to be used spontaneously, making criminals out of innocent people who just happened to not be thinking rationally at the time.

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i dont know a single civilian person in europe owning a gun nor do i know anyone whos ever been shot here

ban them guns in america, noone needs them except to invade iraq or any other 3rd world country

loludumb

[yaaaflow]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

loludumb

hey its another guy who was declined from the army but probably owns a gun!

[Peatree]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i dont know a single civilian person in europe owning a gun nor do i know anyone whos ever been shot here

ban them guns in america, noone needs them except to invade iraq or any other 3rd world country

Gun crime is ever where bub...just look it up...even in the UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gun-crime+uk/uk

I'd rather be legally armed and trained to use it...than caught in a situation wishing I had it...whether someone had a knife, gun, bat, etc.... Hell -- if I, my wife and/or my children are ever in danger w/out a way to get out, then I will shoot first (double tap) and then deal with any type trial afterwards.

[Seeatee]

what happened in AZ is terrible and a huge tragedy and unimaginable loss, that being said you can not take away peoples rights to own guns because of the few whackos on the fringe who can not play nice - if this guy didnt have access to a gun maybe he would have built a bomb, or drove a car into the crowd if he was so motived and wanted to hurt this person he would have found a way gun or no gun.

what we do need is deeper background checks and stricter screening processes saying who can and can not get a gun.

as it is right now, not so many people carry guns.

lets say you are a robber, you are walking down the street and find a nice juicy victim, as it is right now, the odds are a solid 99% chance they do not have a gun, you will rob them and get away no problem.

now lets say half of all people had guns - not just the bad guys but half of all people own a gun and carry it.

again you are a robber and your walking down the street and see a guy leaving the ATM, you still going to rob him knowing there is a 50% chance if you do, you are going to get shot in the face?

how many guys would rape women if they know there is a 50% chance if they do, they are getting a hot lead injection to the dome?

and to end my thoughts, one of my all time favorite quotes.

"If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns"

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

quote - "lets say you are a robber, you are walking down the street and find a nice juicy victim, as it is right now, the odds are a solid 99% chance they do not have a gun, you will rob them and get away no problem.

now lets say half of all people had guns - not just the bad guys but half of all people own a gun and carry it.

again you are a robber and your walking down the street and see a guy leaving the ATM, you still going to rob him knowing there is a 50% chance if you do, you are going to get shot in the face?"

Yeah, the criminals will just give up and find other professions. Lol. Um, maybe they will simply no longer be so polite as to ask for the money before they shoot, stab, tazer, etc...

[Stibe]

Originally Posted by DetroitVelvetSmooth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

quote - "lets say you are a robber, you are walking down the street and find a nice juicy victim, as it is right now, the odds are a solid 99% chance they do not have a gun, you will rob them and get away no problem.

now lets say half of all people had guns - not just the bad guys but half of all people own a gun and carry it.

again you are a robber and your walking down the street and see a guy leaving the ATM, you still going to rob him knowing there is a 50% chance if you do, you are going to get shot in the face?"

Yeah, the criminals will just give up and find other professions. Lol. Um, maybe they will simply no longer be so polite as to ask for the money before they shoot, stab, tazer, etc...

Nah, if i was a robber and knew there was a 50% chance i was going to get shot, i'd just kill him instead of it just being a robbery.

[skulldudes]

ban guns; people stab each other

[Bushwick]

Violent crime is largely associated with poverty, lack of education and drug addiction. Banning guns won't stop crime, and I sincerely doubt widespread arming of the populace would deter it either. If an assailant suspects you are armed he isn't going to stand behind you and call "Draw!" before shooting you. If you want to reduce crime, go ahead and support sane restrictions on gun ownership and usage, but strongly consider supporting increases to social services like welfare, public health care and job creation for the unemployed.

A better argument for banning would be that gun hobbyists are creeeeepy and have morbid fantasies about home intruders.