Project 1999 Red Discord Server

[Nirgon]

Ya you have no control over being able to check the zone and plug for 20 minutes if need be

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ya you have no control over being able to check the zone and plug for 20 minutes if need be

Because that's what every first-time Red player does. And because not playing for 20 minutes because some loser gets off on schadenfreude is so much fun it will make everyone want to stay ... right?

Look I'm not saying make Red Blue. All I'm saying is that is that even on Rallos Zek most guilds formed an alliance to take on the griefers (although as I understand it they maybe went a bit far and prohibited all world PvP). If you don't address griefing, you get Red's population, because no one likes being griefed. You can make all the arguments you want about how I'm wrong and how great being griefed is, but arguing the problem doesn't exist won't fix it or help Red's population.

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look I'm not saying make Red Blue. All I'm saying is that is that even on Rallos Zek most guilds formed an alliance to take on the griefers (although as I understand it they maybe went a bit far and prohibited all world PvP). If you don't address griefing, you get Red's population, because no one likes being griefed. You can make all the arguments you want about how I'm wrong and how great being griefed is, but arguing the problem doesn't exist won't fix it or help Red's population.

They tried that on here with a guild called the Good Guys. They were destroyed and fucked off back to blue.

[Buhbuh]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because that's what every first-time Red player does. And because not playing for 20 minutes because some loser gets off on schadenfreude is so much fun it will make everyone want to stay ... right?

Look I'm not saying make Red Blue. All I'm saying is that is that even on Rallos Zek most guilds formed an alliance to take on the griefers (although as I understand it they maybe went a bit far and prohibited all world PvP). If you don't address griefing, you get Red's population, because no one likes being griefed. You can make all the arguments you want about how I'm wrong and how great being griefed is, but arguing the problem doesn't exist won't fix it or help Red's population.

Yeah, GMs sort of botched combating the grief on Red in the first week of release when they let it play out naturally on the 600 people playing there, then made rules consistently favoring those who enjoy grief, and even still, they only arbitrarily enforced those rules based on mood when legitimate offenses came up.

That's not even up for debate. That happened. GMs apparently simply won't just ban retards, so there's basically no behavior that will get you a lasting, forever punishment from the staff (despite being deserving of it). You can chop that up to having a jelly spine or just not caring. Take a wild guess who mirrors those sentiments. Every guild, ever.

Literally all that's left is a pro-grief population, in whatever latent or subverted form that takes.

[mickmoranis]

there is virtually no greifing anymore but thats because everyone who plays is level 60 or in jail.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because that's what every first-time Red player does. And because not playing for 20 minutes because some loser gets off on schadenfreude is so much fun it will make everyone want to stay ... right?

Look I'm not saying make Red Blue. All I'm saying is that is that even on Rallos Zek most guilds formed an alliance to take on the griefers (although as I understand it they maybe went a bit far and prohibited all world PvP). If you don't address griefing, you get Red's population, because no one likes being griefed. You can make all the arguments you want about how I'm wrong and how great being griefed is, but arguing the problem doesn't exist won't fix it or help Red's population.

The people who were nice pals to play with sucked at PvP and got run off

There's a couple reasons also why the player base wasn't so excited to stay and of course entirely the fault of the players there too *eye roll* @ dat.

But more seriously learning in EQ can be a very rough experience when compared to other games, the PvP aspect is no exception. There should be item loot too.

[deadlycupcakez]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So your argument is basically "the game is hard already, everyone should want it to be harder"? Seems pretty weak. Plus, getting ganked by a griefer that you had no way of stopping is an entirely different set of misery than dying because you were stupid and punched Fippy Darkpaw when you were at 10% health in PvE.

Nono, I'm saying that the case being presented that "people don't like being ganked so people don't play red," literally equates across servers to, "people don't like losing hours of invested time to unforgiving and (needless to say, unpredictable) RNG, therefore people don't play classic Everquest." This, however, just isn't the case. Which is why the first argument just never made sense to me.

Originally Posted by deadlycupcakez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never understood this argument

[loramin]

Originally Posted by deadlycupcakez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

people don't like losing hours of invested time to unforgiving and (needless to say, unpredictable) RNG, therefore people don't play classic Everquest." This, however, just isn't the case.

Right, I think I get your point now. Basically I'd just simplify it down to control. When you die in a fair PvP fight, or when you die in PvE (usually) you have control. Afterwards you say, "if only I had done X I could have won or survived". But when a griefer kills you not only do you have zero control over it, you also know that he's getting his nut off at your misery. To me that makes them different in a meaningful way from normal PvE deaths.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They tried that on here with a guild called the Good Guys. They were destroyed and fucked off back to blue.

Originally Posted by Buhbuh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Literally all that's left is a pro-grief population, in whatever latent or subverted form that takes.

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The people who were nice pals to play with sucked at PvP and got run off
...
There should be item loot too.

So obviously item loot would help with fungi twinks, but it won't happen. And clearly past efforts by the community to combat griefing have failed. But sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better.

Maybe if Red's population keeps dropping, Red players will become motivated enough to find solutions they couldn't in the past. Heck, if mickmoranis is to be believed the server is already well on it's way [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by mickmoranis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there is virtually no greifing anymore but thats because everyone who plays is level 60 or in jail.

Or maybe we all just have to wait for Discord. /shrug

[Servant]

All of this aside, I really think you overestimate the amount of griefing that occurs here from 1-55. 56+ yeah, it can be rough sometimes, but at 56+ you can also join Apex or Ragnarok and have basically half the server's pvpers on your side.

Did you know, you can /consent your own characters? Did you know you can "plug" (end task EQ) while zoning and you won't come out the other side? Did you know that you can have a wizard put a TL box up on you and then you can go loot your corpse out from under the campers and click the TL box to escape? Did you know that many of the twinks are well-known alts of well-known pvpers, and that a little recruiting in /ooc can often gain you assistance in fighting them? Did you know that the vast majority of leveling zones are so underutilized on low pop r99 that pvpers never even set foot there?

It just takes a little creativity and patience and you can escape any situation, even unto letting your corpse rot and having Cylock summon it back for you. And for those that say there are only griefers left, that's just total BS. Griefers hang out with griefers, and that's all they see, but most people are much more mellow and pve focused, especially pre-60.

Just hang the excuses up and come dive in. Water's fine.