Convenience Features on Blue?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Thomacles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did it ever occur to you QoL features could draw more people in?

I'm not trying to get into this fight on one side or the other, but I think something (important) may not have occurred to you.

The people behind this server do not care about drawing more people in. And they've flat out said as much: Nilbog has a quote to the effect that he plans to make this place classic even if that means driving every last player off.

[Thomacles]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not trying to get into this fight on one side or the other, but I think something (important) may not have occurred to you.

The people behind this server do not care about drawing more people in. And they've flat out said as much: Nilbog has a quote to the effect that he plans to make this place classic even if that means driving every last player off.

That train departed long ago. Classic was abandoned for the reasons I stated earlier. Loot on drag, no item links, etc etc. But, I understand your viewpoint.

The real question becomes, since they already deviated from classic, where and how is the line drawn? NO ONe can dispute the fact item linking is NOT classic by any stretch of the imagination. Take that away, and watch the riots start.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Thomacles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That train departed long ago. Classic was abandoned for the reasons I stated earlier. Loot on drag, no item links, etc etc. But, I understand your viewpoint.

Such a typically ignorant response ... I want to get mad, but it's better to educate than get mad at ignorance [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 has never "abandoned" classic-ness . When the wiki works, you can find an entire page of unclassic stuff (the "Non-Classic Compendium") ... but along with that list, you'll also find an explanation for why each thing is.

There are literally just two things that are pure developer fiat: the direction of the boats in OOT (the original directions made no sense, world-wise), and the Siren's Grotto camp/glitch bug (it was used far more on live than recharging ever was, but the devs unclassically "fix" it here). For those two things, you can rail as much as you want against for R&N for being hypocrites.

For everything else though ... if it's unclassic, it's unclassic because it has to be. Either it's impossible to recreate classic because no one knows for sure what some aspect of classic was like, so the staff do their best (eg. drop rates of stuff, exactly where every mob spawns and how many per zone, etc.) ... or it's impossible because of a technical limitation like the Titanium client.

But again, except for boats and Siren's Grotto, nothing here is done unclassically by choice.

[Fammaden]

How long was corpse looting tied to consent? When on the timeline was that removed?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How long was corpse looting tied to consent? When on the timeline was that removed?

Not long. http://wiki.project1999.com/Patch_Notes could tell you, if the wiki was up.

[Thomacles]

Item link, intro'd Sept '02, not classic. Not needed. I'll ask you again, why some QoL's and not others? You absolutely cannot claim "classic" with item links. The currant state of the game is "classic-ish", nothing more. This IS a black or white situation. It either IS classic, or it is just close to classic.

Guess what.....It's the latter.

I also see they make you levi on boats....Not classic
I also see the shark no longer jumps up on the deck of the boat....Not classic

The list keeps going. Obviously people want to pick and choose, and ignore other stuff.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Thomacles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Item link, intro'd Sept '02, not classic. Not needed.

See there's that ignorance again. Live had a team of paid GMs supporting their servers, plus an order of magnitude more "guides" (who were paid with free game time). Project 1999 is in fact forbidden to take money, which means they can't pay anyone to do anything.

That means we're stuck with an all volunteer customer service team, and you know what saves that team a whole bunch of time (that they'd otherwise spend dealing with fraud), allowing them to help players with actually important stuff? You guessed it: item links!

Originally Posted by Thomacles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also see they make you levi on boats....Not classic

This is an example of a technical limitation. Look not even Verant could make the boats work right: if you look through old forums you'll hear lots of tales of people falling off and needing GMs to help them.

But again, our support team has more on their plate than just fishing people out of the ocean. Levitation on boats ensures people don't have that happen.

Originally Posted by Thomacles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also see the shark no longer jumps up on the deck of the boat....Not classic

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Not even sure what you're talking about, but maybe that's a function of them needing to use different boat models (again, to keep people from falling out)?

So now what? You were ignorant, but now I've educated you, so you can't keep claiming ignorance. If you really want, you can lob some more unclassic stuff at me. I compiled like half the Non-Classic Compendium page in the wiki, so I can do this all day (although it'd be more efficient for you to just wait for the wiki to come back up and read it yourself).

Or you could admit you were ignorant before, and ignorance is no one's fault, but now that understand more you've changed your opinion?

[Danth]

'Cept the admins do get to pick and choose because it's their host, their code, and their right. I don't always agree with the decisions they make either (for example, I'd have patched out nonclassic mouewheel view scroll as soon as fix came available) but as players we pretty much either like it or lump it. P99's done pretty well for itself over the years.

With respect to the ships, the levitate thing exists solely because the ship 3D models are broken on our client and people fall through 'em. That's also why the old-world ship uses the sort-of-functional beta model and not the totally-broken classic model. Give them properly working ship models and we wouldn't have auto-lev. That's a case of necessity trumping preference.

Danth

[Thomacles]

Loramin, calling someone ignorant isn't doing you any justice. You are making my point for me. I listed absolute unclassic things that are currently in game. You ADMIT to the changes, then go about stating "the reasons" why the changes were made. Bottom line: You confirmed what I have been saying all along.

You keep calling me ignorant, trying to invalidate my claims. Yet I can produce verifiable evidence and documentation on my claims.

I'm guessing we may be having a touch of the Dunning-Kruger effect happening here.

My only claim was that they already changed stuff from classic already. You claimed it's classic, but they changed ABC because of XYZ. But the core argument remains....

It's been changed from classic, for whatever reason.

"But they had to change stuff because they didn't have paid GMs!"....and that has what to do with anything? That just states the reason they CHANGED it to begin with, but in the end it was indeed changed.

(I cannot believe you ever played the original game if you never heard of, or encountered, the infamous Erudin's Crossing deck-shark....REALLY???)

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Thomacles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin, calling someone ignorant isn't doing you any justice. You are making my point for me. I listed absolute unclassic things that are currently in game. You ADMIT to the changes, then go about stating "the reasons" why the changes were made. Bottom line: You confirmed what I have been saying all along.

You keep calling me ignorant, trying to invalidate my claims. Yet I can produce verifiable evidence and documentation on my claims.

I'm guessing we may be having a touch of the Dunning-Kruger effect happening here.

My only claim was that they already changed stuff from classic already. You claimed it's classic, but they changed ABC because of XYZ. But the core argument remains....

It's been changed from classic, for whatever reason.

"But they had to change stuff because they didn't have paid GMs!"....and that has what to do with anything? That just states the reason they CHANGED it to begin with, but in the end it was indeed changed.

(I cannot believe you ever played the original game if you never heard of, or encountered, the infamous Erudin's Crossing deck-shark....REALLY???)

Ok, first off let's be clear on the definition of an English word.

When I call someone "ignorant", that is not insulting them: I'm not calling them stupid, or a moron, or anything like that ... which is why I took pains to say that I was trying not to get mad. If I say someone is ignorant, I'm saying they lack knowledge, and you shouldn't get mad at someone just because they haven't learned something yet. You hadn't learned some important information about this project, so I shared it.

Originally Posted by Thomacles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm guessing we may be having a touch of the Dunning-Kruger effect happening here.

See now that was an insult (albeit a subtle and reasonably clever one).

As for the rest of your post ... can you basically admit that you're just mad the devs can't do the impossible?

Because your argument is "X isn't classic". But that's a stupid (not ignorant) thing to argue, if X is impossible to make classic in the first place.

It's not a wrong thing to argue (you are 100% correct that P99 has unclassic stuff) ... just stupid (because no one could possibly do anything about it: eg. no one can convince Daybreak to let us have paid GMs).