new patch ench charm

[ziahh]

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[ziahh]

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[Splorf22]

On the one hand, I've long considered enchanters a bit OP. I was able to solo the King room in Guk at 52 even without whirl, whereas a 6 man group of 50s without an enchanter could easily wipe there. And I can't really consider it to be some amazing talent on my part, just pacify / paralyzing earth / charm.

On the other hand, if I didn't have the portal in the back it would unquestionably have been an XP loss. If there are enchanters charm soloing at 50+ for xp without a) being at a zone line or b) being outdoors with SoW they are a hell of a lot more skilled than I am. Charm break on a 45+ pet is *ugly* - you'll take 200-300 damage in the best case, and 1000-1500 if you get a resist on color flux or you get bashed. And if you look at the log, you will notice that the enchanter that posted is in fact duoing with a cleric. Charm breaks in groups are even worse because the mob you are fighting isn't rooted, so usually it will come after you as well (or summon you). In fact I would say with the changes to taunt charming in a full group was dead anyway.

It's been 10 years, but I don't remember enchanters permacharming pets in groups, so the changes may be somewhat classic, although Haynar told me that the charm code here was completely rewritten from eqemulator. Ultimately I think that if your goal is to have a hard game where the mobs are a lot stronger than the players, you just can't have a cool class like an enchanter with abilities like calm and charm.

[Ropethunder]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was able to solo the King room in Guk at 52 even without whirl.

You can't compare a camp with ubiquitous number of spawns to charm kill one PH with a zone line at your back to the much more dangerous dungeon crawling variety.

Honestly, charming stuff was dangerous for soloing but it wasn't overpowered. It was perfect with plenty of unexpected charm breaks. Sure, you could get a pretty solid charm if you use it on something 10-15 levels below you. But that wouldn't be considered "cruise control to xp" as some have said it is.

Charming takes a lot of mana and is not as amazing solo exp as people think it is when you factor in charm breaks, med breaks, regen breaks when you take hp damage, and the plat sink for runes.

Higher level charms was perfect before this patch. And in Kunark mobs hit so hard that I would already only ever charm while in a group. A charm break means you get nailed even with Rune V up.

What was the reason for this change? Why was it considered overpowered?

[Fazlazen]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's been 10 years, but I don't remember enchanters permacharming pets in groups, so the changes may be somewhat classic, although Haynar told me that the charm code here was completely rewritten from eqemulator. Ultimately I think that if your goal is to have a hard game where the mobs are a lot stronger than the players, you just can't have a cool class like an enchanter with abilities like calm and charm.

I think your memory is off on this point. I clearly remember enchanters keeping a charmed frog for hours in sebilis on live.

The nerf to calm/paci/lull was right and it was in fact OP. This is what allowed us enchanters to break in camps and it made many encounters trivial. Whirl, I was actually happy when whirl till you hurl was nerfed, because it wasnt right.


However, charming, from the testing I've been doing last night, seems way off. I dont think a single one of my charms lasted for more than 5mins, breaking often under less than 30seconds, and these charms were done on tashanian'd 10 lvls undercons in Charasis, with 255 charisma at lvl 57. I was in North wing with a necro at that time, keeping both our pets tashed, and he could not believe how much longer his charms were lasting compared to mine. (<Vesica Dei> dont remember his name, lvl 57 necro.)

Let's not forget charming is one of the main ability of the enchanter class.

Maybe it makes us OP, then so be it, thats the way the game was designed.

Just wait until we start raiding velious and all that is asked of us is to clarity and to click our epic, you'll get your last laugh.

faz

[Brinkman]

Just want to throw this in here, Im a necro, and it seems my charms are breaking alot sooner than normal as well. I had 4 charm breaks in 2 minutes, Mob was 11 lvls below me.

I could just be coincidence, but It might be affecting all charm spells, not just enchanters.

[Nedala]

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just want to throw this in here, Im a necro, and it seems my charms are breaking alot sooner than normal as well. I had 4 charm breaks in 2 minutes, Mob was 11 lvls below me.

I could just be coincidence, but It might be affecting all charm spells, not just enchanters.

It is supposed to affect all charms.

Anyway it seems off, i had quiet a lot charmbreaks b4 this nerf, but now it just breaks all the time and is pretty much useless, idk if thats really how it should be.

[Throb]

I have to wonder how many people applauding this nerf actually played an enchanter past 50 and used charm. I considered myself pretty good at it, and even in a group with a charmed pet, to AFK or get distracted for even 30 seconds could mean your death. I had allures sometimes last the full duration, but I also had some charm breaks after less than 10 seconds (albeit those were rare). To summarize, the duration of the spell was already extremely erratic at times, and if your charm happened to break on a large pull you're trying to mez, it was already highly probable you'd nearly die or wipe.

As of now charming is essentially useless. Charming should be dangerous, but not broken beyond practicality as it is currently. If you want to nerf it, fine, but can we tone it down a bit? Even with tash and malo on a light blue mob, it would not stay charmed for more than 2-4 mins, usually breaking within 45 seconds and quite often within 10.

If your plan is to make enchanters nothing more than mez and buffbots ala Plane of Sky, you're well on your way.

[ziahh]

Originally Posted by Ropethunder [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can't compare a camp with ubiquitous number of spawns to charm kill one PH with a zone line at your back to the much more dangerous dungeon crawling variety.

Honestly, charming stuff was dangerous for soloing but it wasn't overpowered. It was perfect with plenty of unexpected charm breaks. Sure, you could get a pretty solid charm if you use it on something 10-15 levels below you. But that wouldn't be considered "cruise control to xp" as some have said it is.

Charming takes a lot of mana and is not as amazing solo exp as people think it is when you factor in charm breaks, med breaks, regen breaks when you take hp damage, and the plat sink for runes.

Higher level charms was perfect before this patch. And in Kunark mobs hit so hard that I would already only ever charm while in a group. A charm break means you get nailed even with Rune V up.

What was the reason for this change? Why was it considered overpowered?

thx you , you reflected my thoughts on this one. since iam french canadien i cant really make solid post and arguing the point. all enchanter i spoke to agreed that the new charm data is really fucekd up and have negate any ability to solo what so ever. we really need a roll back on that 1 ><

[ziahh]

Originally Posted by Fazlazen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's not forget charming is one of the main ability of the enchanter class.

Maybe it makes us OP, then so be it, thats the way the game was designed.

Just wait until we start raiding velious and all that is asked of us is to clarity and to click our epic, you'll get the last laugh.

faz

AMEN